Why do I dislike the feel of nylon carcass tyres?

[Nickldn]

I really like the road feel of my Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs, but for some reason don't like the feel of my Vittoria Rubino Pros with Conti Supersonic inner tubes.

The tyres feel less smooth and supple than my Corsas, I presume this is due to their nylon carcass. Comfort is certainly not as good and road feel is muted. The tyres just don't communicate the road as well and I don't feel anywhere as confident in corners (I guess they are actually not as grippy as Corsas).

I have ridden these tyres on another bike with thicker inner tubes and they were as bad, so it's not a bike, or inner tube issue.

Is this normal for all nylon carsass tyres? Would I expect the same from GP5000s? Tubless? Are cotton tyres just better for road feel?

[Marin]

No, some of the most supple tires are made with Nylon casings.

Panaracer makes Gran Bois, Pacenti and Rene Herse tires which have a ride quality much better than the current Corsas, and which have Nylon casing.

[TobinHatesYou]

Rolling efficiency is largely driven by the rubber itself, but suppleness also plays a role. Something like a GP5K has a quite supple (fragile and thin) nylon casing. People say they ride like garden hoses, but I think that comes down to the hardness of the compound used down the center of the tread cap.

[LouisN]

You can't reduce your impressions to only carcass material. You have not ridden enough different tires to come down with such conclusion.
I can understand you preffer the ride of a more supple carcass.
But you can ride cheap tires made with cotton, with big strands so not very supple. Double that with a thick rubber (think Vittoria Rallye tubs) and you end up with a tire that feels harsher than a very supple carcass, made with lots of tiny nylon (or "poly" ) strands, and a thinner rolling band, like the René Herse talked earlier.

Louis

[Nickldn]

So what you guys are telling me is that I prefer expensive tyres to cheap tyres?!?!!!

What supple and low RR tyres would you guys recommend? Tempted to try Rene Herse Cayuse Pass tires next, what's the RR and puncture protection like compared to the GP5000?

[LouisN]

Yes .
Maybe look for François Marie tires known as FMB (for François Marie Boyaux (tubular tires). Hand built he now makes "open tubular" tires (Calnago would certainly have a comment on this ).
https://fm-boyaux.cc/fr/16-route
No silk threads yet on his open tubulars though. And nothing specified on carbon rim compatibility besides this .
https://fm-boyaux.cc/en/accessoires/63- ... -10m_x_6mm
Veloflex are still on top of my list in terms of ride feel:
https://www.veloflex.it/en/clincher-tires

Louis

[Nickldn]

Been thinking about Veloflex Corsas evo tlrs for a while and nearly bought a pair a few weeks back, but concerned about puncture resistance and alleged sealant drinking.

I trust the Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs on my other bike, they are quite tough, wouldn't want anything more fragile. Trouble is the Vittoria Corsa G+2.0 clinchers/Tlrs gets quite low RR scores. My other choice would be the GP5000 tlrs, or clinchers, but if they ride anything like the Rubino Pros I'd hate them.

[TobinHatesYou]

Personally I do not find the Veloflex Corsa TLR tires to be amazingly supple. In order to improve the tire's ability to seal, they added what is almost a second layer of tread-like rubber to the inside of the casing. The 25mm version felt quite harsh until took them down <80psi.

[LouisN]

Been thinking about Veloflex Corsas evo tlrs for a while and nearly bought a pair a few weeks back, but concerned about puncture resistance and alleged sealant drinking.

All my Vittoria tires with Graphene have been less than durable, tubular or clincher. The rubber band peeling off before 2000 km's, often before 1000 km's.
With Veloflex, it's the opposite. The vast majority of my Veloflex clinchers or tubs I can get them to 3000 (avg. 2500 rear and 4000 front) km's most of the time. Of course if you want to use the thinner, more race oriented model it will likely have a shorter life span.
Personnally, since I lowered my tire pressures to 90-95 PSI on 25 mm tires, I very rarely have flats. I think the most flats I had the last 3 years is with my GP 4000S II clinchers.

Louis

[Nickldn]

My graphene Corsa tubs have been pretty good, I get at least 2,500km before they start wearing through and becoming puncture prone. I use Effetto Mariposa Café Latex sealant to fix punctures and I can usually get 3,000km from my tubs, although putting in the latex adds to RR.

I wonder if it depends on the roads.

Is the Veloflex Corsa Evo the Vittoria Corsa G+ equivalent in terms of toughness/puncture resistance?

[LouisN]

I think it depends on many factors. Road surfaces are one of them.
Yes, the rubber is thicker (and a different compound "mix") in the center than the Corsa RACE. ALso the casing has less thread per inch (320 TPI), so theoretically not as smooth as the thinner Corsa RACE with 350 TPI.
FWIW, I can't fell the difference between the Service Course, the Pro Tour or Pro Tour RACE tubs I use now.
IMO the RACE version is not so much more prone to flats, but the center being thinner, with 1000-1500 km's on them (mostly rear one) the risk of flats increases a lot.
I ditched a rear Pro Tour a few days ago, when I realised I had a slow leak. After unmounting the tub, I couldn't find any holes, rocks, glass chards or pinches, but I could feel the center was so thin ! 2500 km's+ of good services rendered .

Louis

[MikeD]

I really like the road feel of my Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs, but for some reason don't like the feel of my Vittoria Rubino Pros with Conti Supersonic inner tubes.

Isn't this more a tubular vs. clincher thing? Isn't this one of the reasons the pros prefer tubulars?

[Nickldn]

I really like the road feel of my Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs, but for some reason don't like the feel of my Vittoria Rubino Pros with Conti Supersonic inner tubes.

Isn't this more a tubular vs. clincher thing? Isn't this one of the reasons the pros prefer tubulars?

I've tried nylon carcass tubulars (Conti Sprinters) too, they pretty dead compared to Vittoria Corsa tubulars.

[MikeD]

I really like the road feel of my Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs, but for some reason don't like the feel of my Vittoria Rubino Pros with Conti Supersonic inner tubes.

Isn't this more a tubular vs. clincher thing? Isn't this one of the reasons the pros prefer tubulars?

I've tried nylon carcass tubulars (Conti Sprinters) too, they pretty dead compared to Vittoria Corsa tubulars.

I used a pair of Vittoria Open Corsa CX's once. They had a good ride feel, but they were not durable. I imagine Nylon doesn't absorb as much energy or has as good a damping quality as cotton. Maybe the ride feel was also due to the open tubular construction. They also fit loosely in the rims, but didn't blow off on me. I don't think I'll use them again.