Never had carbon rims. Squealing with rim brakes?

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Rossin67
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:01 pm

by Rossin67

I'm an old timer but I've never had carbon wheels. I have heard the mind twisting squealing with them on group rides.

I only run tubulars and Iive come across a good deal on some 1400g Vision TC24 carbon tubs, they do not have an aluminum brake track. Does anyone have a recommendation on some pads for my Ultegra calipers that will be garanteed quiet? Or is this somthing that is a hit or miss? I don't want them unless I have no doubt they'll not squeal.

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Tifosiphil
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by Tifosiphil

It's all about making sure the brake pads are toed in correctly so the front bites slightly before the rear. I've had good success with the Swisstop pads but I can't guarantee you squeal free braking in the wet. Squealing in the dry is normally due to poor setup

Rossin67
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:01 pm

by Rossin67

Thanks, that's kind of what I thought. I can properly adjust pads but I do ride in the rain. Squealing in any condition is just something I can't take so I'm going to pass. I already have a nice 1475g aluminum wheelset, I'll just stick with those.

HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

My experience is similar to tifo.

I did adjust my pads on one of my bikes not that long ago. Long story why. Had ridiculous squealing for something like 2 hours riding - before the wore down enough for it to disappear again (or it might have been on the brake track - it being polished again - not sure).

Only time ever I have experienced it - and I have never ridden on a group ride or in a race where this has been an issue. Disc brakes - that is another story. I have heard every and any kind of noises coming off them.

smokva
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:13 pm

by smokva

BAsically if you buy carbon wheels it's kind of a rullete what sound will they make while breaking....except Campagnolo Boras with new brake tracks for which you are 100% sure that they'll sound like WW2 fighter plane...which you wierdly start to like with time.

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C36
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by C36

That’s something that either setup or pads will solve.
For the setup you have different methods, all with the same concept to ensure the front of the pad bite before the end.
This inexpensive tool allow to do it faster but nothing you can’t do without.
Image


The other element is the pad. In the search of better brake feeling I ended up with Campy cork pads that never caused me “Pig being slaughtered” noise.

Now I am not sure you have a “one pad to rule them all” since your rim brake track is a variable. Guess once you adjust it then properly you may have to try a few.


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LouisN
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Location: Canada

by LouisN

Rossin67 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:23 am
I'm an old timer but I've never had carbon wheels. I have heard the mind twisting squealing with them on group rides.

I only run tubulars and Iive come across a good deal on some 1400g Vision TC24 carbon tubs, they do not have an aluminum brake track. Does anyone have a recommendation on some pads for my Ultegra calipers that will be garanteed quiet? Or is this somthing that is a hit or miss? I don't want them unless I have no doubt they'll not squeal.
Never had squeal with soft blue generic pads on asian generic rims (all my wheels have basalt brake surface). You will more likely experience slower braking in the wet than brake squeal.
People I see (or hear) with squealing pads generally combine mirror finish brake tracks with very hard brake pads.

Louis :)

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pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I have the pre-AC3 Boras and they do squeal but only after a period of very hard braking. And no, it's not due to poor setup. It's just the nature of carbon rim braking. I'm not bothered by it since I don't do switchbacked steep descents every day. But if you do then that might turn you off.

biwa
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:48 pm
I have the pre-AC3 Boras and they do squeal but only after a period of very hard braking. And no, it's not due to poor setup. It's just the nature of carbon rim braking. I'm not bothered by it since I don't do switchbacked steep descents every day. But if you do then that might turn you off.
Exactly, after prolonged or hard braking, it's impossible to avoid squealing on carbon rims. The toe-in setup can only delay but cannot eliminate it completely.

bikewithnoname
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Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

Squealling is a bit hit and miss and comes down to the brake track and pad combo. Swiss Stop blacks squeal for me, yellows don't.

PLEASE be careful the first time you take them out in the rain, its almost certain they won't stop as well as the alu rim you're used to and those first few deccelerations can be somewhat disconcerting!
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Ypuh
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by Ypuh

My Zipp ShowStopper brakes never squealed. They brake like crap in the rain, but I don't tend to ride them in the rain anyway. In the dry they're perfect.
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alcatraz
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by alcatraz

You're going to have to try. The noise can come with certain combinations of calipers/frames/rims/pads etc.

You write that you do ride in the wet so you'd best not buy just any carbon wheels but something with brake tracks to help with wet stopping.

Rossin67
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:01 pm

by Rossin67

HenryH wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:27 am
Disc brakes - that is another story. I have heard every and any kind of noises coming off them.
I actually bought a disc bike three years ago. I wanted something all modern and up to date and see if these bikes today were really better. It's a Daimondback Podium e'Tape Disc. My first carbon and disc road bike. The first ride I properly bedded in the pads.

The brakes squealed so bad it was embarrassing, sounded like an air horn. I tried every fix i could find on the internet, I even got some anti-squeal spray for cars. Nothing worked. The worst was when I cleaned the rotors with rubbing alcohol as I read suggested, that made it even worse. After a couple of months I was about to put the bike up for sale when the idea to sand the rotors popped into my head. I took a piece of rough grit that comes in a tube patch kit and lightly sanded them just enough to scuff them up, took only a minute or two. Bam! They've been totally silent ever since and that was about 3000 miles ago.

I'm about to order a tubular wheelset for them from PWB. Kinlin TB 20 aluminum tubular disc rims, Bitex hubs and Sapim Laser spokes. They'll be less than 1500g and cost less than $500.

HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

I never had any issues (at least not long term) myself, but I would say it is more common that someone will have one with disc rather than rim.

And not suggesting they aren't fixable in most cases for discs either.

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usr
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by usr

bikewithnoname wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:56 am
PLEASE be careful the first time you take them out in the rain, its almost certain they won't stop as well as the alu rim you're used to and those first few deccelerations can be somewhat disconcerting!
The good news is that it will feel much worse than it actually is: first you notice that it takes a certain timespan until the brakes engage, then you try to compensate by continuing at a slower pace, then you notice that it takes even longer and compensate more, until you are almost down to walking speeds. The thing is that it takes a certain number of wheel revolutions until the brakes engage, not a certain amount of time, and the slower you go the more time will pass until reasonable deceleration. Going slower helps (and it's certainly not advisable to keep going as if it was dry), but not much. Continuing at a reasonably moderate pace will be much less risky than you'd think after the first compensation experiences.

(about the squeal: my squeal was brutal until I fixed toe-in, now I hardly ever get it outside of e.g. approaching a T-junction at -18%, which is roughly as with my aluminum brakes. I take it as a well deserved heat warning)

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