Rim brakes live for another 4 years - INEOS re-sign with Pinarello

[justonwo]

So much of this depends on the situation. There are many massive descents that require very little braking, and others where you just can't let the bike go. Scary steep shit with mediocre surface and switchbacks close together that just keep coming. On many occasions over the years I have stopped to let my alloy rims cool. And could you imaging descending if you weighed 115 kg . There should be a custom fork available so that 12the big guys could run MTB size front rotors. I know a tour leader who would run nothing less then 180mm up front. And a tip for the big guys - semi metallic rotors will help with the wear issue.

Exactly, it all depends on the situation. For example, down the Stelvio I was happy to hit speeds of 90 km, but there are some local roads with 300 m of total descend where I have to drag brakes the whole time. From my eperiance anything less than 2,3 mm thick 180 mm rotor is not enough for me. I use this model from Tektro http://tektro.com/products.php?p=221 and I'm very happy with them. I believe that you need material to disipate heat and these rotors are just about that. THe only problem is to fith them inside caliper, they are thicker so harder to setup.

As for carbon clinchers, indeed the brake surfaces are excellent these days. They can heat up without melting, but I always worry about how the tire bead will take that heat. The answer to that of course is tubulars but that comes with other complications so...
On topic, I love that Ineos and some of the UAE guys ride rim brakes. It's fun to see some guys go against the trend. Tells you someting about equipment preference when earning a living is at stake. Also helps the rim brake crowd feel even better about their gear and less concerned about all those rim brake bikes/wheelsets in which they have invested.

Brake surfaces are better these days, but you can still melt brake tracks...it' just the way epoxy is. You can optimize a thing or two to incrise temperature of the melting point, but they can still be melted in realistic scenarios. The fact is you must always be aware of your carbon clinchers and descend in a way not to overheat them....is it always possible, I don't believe so.
Maybe lighter riders just don't experience what we bigger riders do. When I was skinny with "only" 90 kg I was descending much faster, so carbon clinchers wouldn't be a problem. Now with 115 kg I descend much slower, but not because I forgot how do descend, because It's very hard to stop this additional mass if I let go. Entering the switchturn with the same speed now and before is not the same, I have to reduce speed (disipate energy - heat) much before now.
The fact is that weak point of carbon clinchers is what they are supposed to do, reduce kinetical energy by disipating heat. This energy must go somewhere. If it's not rim heating up than it must be pads heating up, but the surface and volume of pads is much smaller so their thermal capacity is not big.

Yeah, you're stopping much more mass than I am. Agree the heat has to go somewhere. But of course the passing wind cools the surface. It is possible to fail any carbon clincher in a theoretical test where enough braking force is applied for a long enough period of time. However, I'm not certain this is a practical concern anymore. I can't think of anyone in my circle of riding friends that had had a meltdown in the last 8-9 years.

I do agree it's a good idea on a descent as long as the Stelvio to proceed with caution, but that's a pretty extreme example with a steep, long descent and high rider weight. For all practical purposes on the vast majority of my normal rides, I never have to worry about brake performance and overheating. If I felt my brakes softening up on a super long descent, I'd probably stop and let them cool.

[Mr.Gib]

I used to have a rim brake bike with tubulars for a short period of time when I had the weightweenie fever. I was happy with that bike except for I was afraid of braking going down extreme hills (yes, I am just too afraid to ride at 80-110km/h down the hill) and I was afraid of having a puncture. I had a spare Tufo tubular in my back pocket but still unsure I can manage the repair.

Man-up! Live a little, you will be fine. Okay to use your brakes on tubulars and changing a tubular is a piece of cake - watch a YouTube video, maybe practice. It was all we had when I was a kid. Nothing could be easier. The only downside is if you can't be bothered messing with glue which is legit. That's why I use clinchers now, that and tubeless can be great with the right wheels and tires.

[MikeD]

We all know that most cyclists are poseurs, and like to emulate the pros, except for maybe tubular tires.

I go full poseur and have no shame. My favorite Pro, besides Bartali, is Pantani and I started climbing in the drops because I watched him do that. I started descending with my butt one inch above my rear tire because he did that and I recently read that he raced in a 54/44 so I'm ordering new rings

You may win the poseur of the year award.

[AJS914]

One thing that is seldom mentioned is that Pros ride on closed courses and can use both sides of the road. They need brakes much less frequently than us amateurs that only get half the road and need to maintain a safe speed so as not to get hit by a car in the oncoming lane.

[SixThirteen]

Brake surfaces are better these days, but you can still melt brake tracks...it' just the way epoxy is. You can optimize a thing or two to incrise temperature of the melting point, but they can still be melted in realistic scenarios. The fact is you must always be aware of your carbon clinchers and descend in a way not to overheat them....is it always possible, I don't believe so.
Maybe lighter riders just don't experience what we bigger riders do. When I was skinny with "only" 90 kg I was descending much faster, so carbon clinchers wouldn't be a problem. Now with 115 kg I descend much slower, but not because I forgot how do descend, because It's very hard to stop this additional mass if I let go. Entering the switchturn with the same speed now and before is not the same, I have to reduce speed (disipate energy - heat) much before now.
The fact is that weak point of carbon clinchers is what they are supposed to do, reduce kinetical energy by disipating heat. This energy must go somewhere. If it's not rim heating up than it must be pads heating up, but the surface and volume of pads is much smaller so their thermal capacity is not big.

A buddy wrote off a fairly new set of carbon clinchers recently descending a fairly long 8 to 10% hill that required some hard braking due to turns and surface. I was planning to do the same ride a bit later and so planned to use alloys

[Mr.Gib]

A buddy wrote off a fairly new set of carbon clinchers recently descending a fairly long 8 to 10% hill that required some hard braking due to turns and surface. I was planning to do the same ride a bit later and so planned to use alloys

Oh man, you can't tell us that and not say what brand and model of wheel. Brake pad info would also be nice. This is Weightweenies, we are serious here!

[smokva]

I do agree it's a good idea on a descent as long as the Stelvio to proceed with caution, but that's a pretty extreme example with a steep, long descent and high rider weight. For all practical purposes on the vast majority of my normal rides, I never have to worry about brake performance and overheating. If I felt my brakes softening up on a super long descent, I'd probably stop and let them cool.

A friend of mine recently delaminated an set of some Fulcrum (I'm not sure of model, but it's not the one with the newest version of campa brake tracks) carbon clinchers. I rate Fulcrum/Campagnolo to be the best carbon clinchers on the market in terms of quality of materials (includig epoxy used and carbon) and braking performance so if it can be done to Campa it can be done to any other carbon wheel on the market.
He is 90 kg and was descending some 600m on very bad road which means a lot of braking.

I don't know about other places, but here where I'm there a lot of steep (more than 10%) descents with very narrow roads and bad surfaces...you just can't let yourself down.

[justonwo]

I do agree it's a good idea on a descent as long as the Stelvio to proceed with caution, but that's a pretty extreme example with a steep, long descent and high rider weight. For all practical purposes on the vast majority of my normal rides, I never have to worry about brake performance and overheating. If I felt my brakes softening up on a super long descent, I'd probably stop and let them cool.

A friend of mine recently delaminated an set of some Fulcrum (I'm not sure of model, but it's not the one with the newest version of campa brake tracks) carbon clinchers. I rate Fulcrum/Campagnolo to be the best carbon clinchers on the market in terms of quality of materials (includig epoxy used and carbon) and braking performance so if it can be done to Campa it can be done to any other carbon wheel on the market.
He is 90 kg and was descending some 600m on very bad road which means a lot of braking.

I don't know about other places, but here where I'm there a lot of steep (more than 10%) descents with very narrow roads and bad surfaces...you just can't let yourself down.

Yikes, that's scary! I stand corrected. Looks like these systems can be pushed to failure in real-world circumstances. I was very happy riding my Zipp 303s, but I'm light and there aren't many places around here where I need to brake hard to an extended period of time.

It seems like you have to be careful with any system in situations where you have extended hard braking. Hot aluminum rims can burst tubes. Carbon rims can delaminate. Disc brakes can overheat.

[SixThirteen]

A buddy wrote off a fairly new set of carbon clinchers recently descending a fairly long 8 to 10% hill that required some hard braking due to turns and surface. I was planning to do the same ride a bit later and so planned to use alloys

Oh man, you can't tell us that and not say what brand and model of wheel. Brake pad info would also be nice. This is Weightweenies, we are serious here!

I'd need to check the brand, but they came from New Zealand, so there can't be many carbon wheels brands / builders there.

Blocks? SwissStop Prince or similar top brand.

The kicker? They refused warranty because they said he didn't use their own brand blocks