Running them, initially at least, with Compass Barlow Pass 700x38, which measure out to just under 41mm after a few weeks of use.
Home built gravel wheels
Moderator: robbosmans
Recently built a pair of wheels for my gravel bike using Newmen Fade 28h straightpull hubs, Light Bicycle AR28 (22mm internal width) rims, Sapim CX-Ray spokes, and DT Swiss Squorx nipples (brass nipples on drive side rear, aluminium elsewhere). Weight with tubeless rim tape installed: 1380g (measured on kitchen scales, so might be a few grams out). I tensioned the spokes to 120Kgf disc side front, 140Kgf drive side rear, which dropped to 100Kgf disc side front and 120Kgf drive side rear when tyres were installed and inflated. All-up cost of the hubs, rims, spokes, and nipples $AU1179 (~$US910).
Running them, initially at least, with Compass Barlow Pass 700x38, which measure out to just under 41mm after a few weeks of use.
Running them, initially at least, with Compass Barlow Pass 700x38, which measure out to just under 41mm after a few weeks of use.
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Those look very cool! Nice work.
One thing with dt branded hubs I'm not a fan of is that the flanges don't mirror trailing/leading spokes on both sides. It means that under heavy braking/acceleration the rim moves sideways. It's probably not a big deal. Just a thing in my picky head.
Oddly enough the bontrager branded dt hubs are the other way around.
Tensioning to 140kgf is not easy. Better be careful not to deform those nipples. It's happened to me a few times that I'm approaching a "flawless" build and then right at the end I just want it to be true and I need like a 1/16th of a turn and I can feel the nipple going. Noooooooooooo!
The front being nearly symmetrical it doesn't matter if the spokes are 50/70kgf or 100/120kgf. I like that about front wheels, wide margins.
One thing with dt branded hubs I'm not a fan of is that the flanges don't mirror trailing/leading spokes on both sides. It means that under heavy braking/acceleration the rim moves sideways. It's probably not a big deal. Just a thing in my picky head.
Oddly enough the bontrager branded dt hubs are the other way around.
Tensioning to 140kgf is not easy. Better be careful not to deform those nipples. It's happened to me a few times that I'm approaching a "flawless" build and then right at the end I just want it to be true and I need like a 1/16th of a turn and I can feel the nipple going. Noooooooooooo!
The front being nearly symmetrical it doesn't matter if the spokes are 50/70kgf or 100/120kgf. I like that about front wheels, wide margins.
These are Newmen hubs, not DT, but the spoke hole configuration is the same - the pulling spokes are inside on one flange and outside on the other. One nice thing about the Newmen hubs is that the hub flanges are sized so that you can use the same length spokes all round.
The Squorx nipples have a Torx shape head, so you tighten them using the Squorx driver through the hole in the rim bed. Only if the wheel needs re-trueing after rim tape has been installed do you need to use a spoke key on them. Sapim do something similar with their double square nipples, though the head there is square rather than Torx shaped. My favourite spoke key for is the old Var one that grips all four sides of the nipple - I've never had a spoke nipple deform when using that spoke key.
The AR28 rims have a 2mm offset on the spoke holes, so even with a disc hub, the spoke tensions on the front are almost equal, and the L/R tension difference on the rear is less than with a symmetrical rim. The NDS spoke tensions on the rear are ~80Kgf, so about 2/3 of the tension on the drive side.
The Squorx nipples have a Torx shape head, so you tighten them using the Squorx driver through the hole in the rim bed. Only if the wheel needs re-trueing after rim tape has been installed do you need to use a spoke key on them. Sapim do something similar with their double square nipples, though the head there is square rather than Torx shaped. My favourite spoke key for is the old Var one that grips all four sides of the nipple - I've never had a spoke nipple deform when using that spoke key.
The AR28 rims have a 2mm offset on the spoke holes, so even with a disc hub, the spoke tensions on the front are almost equal, and the L/R tension difference on the rear is less than with a symmetrical rim. The NDS spoke tensions on the rear are ~80Kgf, so about 2/3 of the tension on the drive side.
Cool!
In that case there is no reason to go crazy high tension. Very nice tension balance you got there.
I also had a spoke deform between the bladed section and the rounded when trying to reach like 120-130kgf. It was a cn424, similar to cx-ray. It's good to be careful. It's a lot of tension. Hehe.
In that case there is no reason to go crazy high tension. Very nice tension balance you got there.
I also had a spoke deform between the bladed section and the rounded when trying to reach like 120-130kgf. It was a cn424, similar to cx-ray. It's good to be careful. It's a lot of tension. Hehe.
That's another advantage of the Squorx nipples. Because you're tightening them from inside the rim, you can grip the spoke right at the very point where the bladed section ends, rather than having to grip it some way below that point to clear the spoke key.
Yeah that's what I did but still. I'm using similar nipples too. (semi-internal, Pillar dsn)
The spoke is the weakest between the bladed section and the round section. I had it deform there at around 120kgf even though I only had about 15mm of distance between the nipple and spoke holder. I was thinking, holy s**t. I'm happy things went well for you though.
When the spokes are lighter then this becomes a risk. With heavier spokes, no problem whatsoever.
The spoke is the weakest between the bladed section and the round section. I had it deform there at around 120kgf even though I only had about 15mm of distance between the nipple and spoke holder. I was thinking, holy s**t. I'm happy things went well for you though.
When the spokes are lighter then this becomes a risk. With heavier spokes, no problem whatsoever.
I haven't used Pillar spokes, but I've built quite a number of wheels with CX-Rays, and I've never had the problem you describe, even when using a conventional spoke key and having to grip the spoke some way down the bladed section.
I always completely submerge nipples in oil before using them - whenever I buy a box of nipples, I dump them in a small sieve, submerge that in a bottle of oil, then drain the nipples for an hour or two before storing them in another small container ready for use.
I always completely submerge nipples in oil before using them - whenever I buy a box of nipples, I dump them in a small sieve, submerge that in a bottle of oil, then drain the nipples for an hour or two before storing them in another small container ready for use.
I like that idea of processing the nips before use ...good one.
Bladed spokes... Other than the technical data, is there any real world information definitively showing that they have longer fatigue life than rounded spokes of similar steel?
IMO.. any round steel J bend spoke built correctly with some flange contact/support will last equal as long. Just my bias... Bladed spokes look cool and hence the main reason for using them.
Bladed spokes... Other than the technical data, is there any real world information definitively showing that they have longer fatigue life than rounded spokes of similar steel?
IMO.. any round steel J bend spoke built correctly with some flange contact/support will last equal as long. Just my bias... Bladed spokes look cool and hence the main reason for using them.
I believe almost nothing I read and 'hear'
I believe roughly half of what I see with my own eyes.. in person.
I do not carbon.. anything
I believe roughly half of what I see with my own eyes.. in person.
I do not carbon.. anything
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With regards to high spoke tension and alloy nipples....I tension my spokes to 120kgf and use Sapim Polyax nipples, the one WITHOUT Secure Lock. The Secure Lock model is designed to lock in the nipple to the spoke so the spoke doesn't lose tension. But with Secure Lock it's impossible to achieve the proper (120kgf) high spoke tension. The spoke ends up twisting even when using a bladed spoke holder. Now I only build with nipples without secure lock. DT Swiss also has their own version of locking nipples called Pro Lock. Avoid those as well.
