Latex clincher failure

[Alexandrumarian]

Let's see some theories about this i will provide more background later.

[usr]

That's a nicely regular one, but yeah, that's how latex looks for me when it's not new anymore. I believe that it's the part that needs to stretch web the tire plops from the bed in the middle under the hooks at the side, and parts of the tube will just stick to whatever they were pressed against before, concentrating the stretch for the tire migration to a formerly very narrow strip that is then stretched quite wide. Was that on a TLR rim?

[Alexandrumarian]

Yes tlr dtswiss alloy, 5000 nontl. This tube is actually almost new but i had another with these indentations surviving for years. Well today i had a sudden pressure loss, front wheel, luckly i was barely rolling on my home street. Imagine 1 minute before i was 50kph among cars descending a bridge....really chilling. Took it out and found a 3mm gash in one of those squares.

[alcatraz]

Maybe some talcum powder can help to keep the inner tube mobile. I usually
add powder inside the tire and spread it out nice and evenly. Then the tube before install.

I have those marks too but I never had a failure at them.

[Alexandrumarian]

I used to use talcum but not anymore as I learned to pull the tire over without a lever. Maybe I should go back to it. While I increase the pressure i go around the tire at least twice to make sure it is not pinched/caught anymore. At first I imagined i as doing smth wrong but the marks are over long spans so error pinching falls.

As for the placement, there is a single line of defects strictly placed on the inner center axis (so in line with the valve, towards the spokes. So perhaps some sort of strange bunching and self-clamping under pressure? This was a 22/23mm tube in a 25mm tire (real width 26). Before I used to put the 18/20mm version and the marks might have been smaller. I also don't recall noticing them on the white/traslucent tube I have on the rear now, which was pulled from a 25mm Veloflex tubular.

[Orlok]

I don't have these problems because I ride tubeless tires.

[ms6073]

I used to use talcum but not anymore as I learned to pull the tire over without a lever. Maybe I should go back to it.

Before I went tubeless, I noticed deformations in the tubes when I was using Michellin and Vittoria latex tubes, Vittoria Corsa clinchers, and Zipp 303 FC with cloth rim tape. I thought of them as stretch marks as the tires would bleed down from 90-92 psi to 35-40 in a day or two and I always felt it was deformation stretch marks as the tire deflated. In your case, from the image in your orginal post, those marks actually look more like like mirror indentations as if the tube was folded over on itself, perhaps from when the tube was packed in the retail box?

[usr]

Im quite convinced that it's from the TLR seating stretch. I've had similar effects also with non-TLR seating, but much weaker, like increased daily loss after living through the third worn through tire.

Talkum will help if it was missing before, it's helpfulness has nothing to do with the lever problem. I have a plastic bag next to my talkum stash, put the tube in the bag, add some talkum, shake violently, let it seat a bit, leave the bag with all the stray talkum for the next tube (for non-latex, I usually just fill some in the tire and rotate one revolution)

What I suspect might help (particularly combined with talkum, but maybe not at all), is fully deflating immediately after seating to relieve the strech area and the inflating from scratch into the already seated tire. Latex is very elastic, but I think it will slowly break/deform if stressed for a long time (again, just a suspicion, I might be completely wrong about this)

[pdlpsher1]

These are normal and unavoidable regardless of what types of rim or rimtape. I have two set of wheels (Bora) without rim tapes or spoke holes and these marks are still there. To avoid gashes I use the heavier Vittoria latex tubes and haven't had any gashes or blowouts. With latex I would suggest avoiding those tubes that are on the lighter side. The Vittoria tubes I use have aluminum valve stems and they are actually not too heave at about 77g. I use latex for reduced rolling resistance. I don't care about weight savings as much as RR.

Once I use up my last non-TL tire I'm switching to 100% TL. I already have TL on all of my bikes except one.

[alcatraz]

Did you guys see the tubeless blowout thread? ("departed at 45km/h").

Noone is safe.

[3Pio]

Did you guys see the tubeless blowout thread? ("departed at 45km/h").

Noone is safe.

Tubulars.. Tubular is safe

I had batch of faulty Vittoria Corsa G+ Tubulars, and on few of them Valve Core Stem separated from the base... One of them decided to separate going downhill (front tire).. Beeing on Tubulars i was able to slow down and stop safely.. If something like that happened to clinchers i guess will have different end of the story

Regarding Tubeless i never tried them on Road Bike, but expected to be safer than obviosly they are...

[warthog101]

I don't see them as any more dangerous than a regular tubed clincher that most use.
The tyre is slightly heavier and stronger, and without a tube, less likely to pinch flat.
Happy with mine anyway and certainly not about to use my tubulars as I need to fix any punctures I get.

[Alexandrumarian]

Let's not turn this into a vs thread need to get to the bottom of this type of tube damage as i believe it is a serious safety concern.

1. I looked at a couple old michelin 19mm i have in the crap bin, they have the marks but much more shallow

2. Need to inspect a brand new never used tube

3. Going to extract a tube from an old damaged vittoria tubular i had stashed as spare, inspect then install in the clincher wheel and see if it develops the marks

[Alexandrumarian]

Vittoria corsa 25mm tubular cut open. Some very faint marks from the stiching, which is thick and protruding. I installed the tube in the clincher wheel and one very big difference from the michelin is the smaller diameter. It falls perfectly in while the michelin was too long needing a lot of tuck in.

[JoO]

if i switch out tires on my wheels my vredestein latex tubes also look like this. I re-use them with other tires without any problems.
hmm, should i worry now?