Venge written off as Roval CL50 & Enve TLR tyre part company at 45kmh

[Nadsta]

Interesting to read other users' impressions of the CLX & tubeless. Has anhone experienced/know of anything similar running tubes on this rim?

[raggedtrousers]

Did you get anything back from Enve?

[Nadsta]

Did you get anything back from Enve?

I'm picking up the bike tonight and will send Enve the tyre's batch number, then they've promised a phone call. Nothing from Specialized UK yet though. I believe the wheels are 2 year crash warrantied, I'll guess they'll want to talk when I file that one.

[Nadsta]

In terms of what I've found since getting the bike back tonight-front rim has almost no damage other than a minor scuff where it tried to roll on the tarmac. I haven't checked how round/true it is but it looks fine. So no tyre de-rimming structural failure here. I've tried to reinflate the Enve tyre but until I clean off the dried gloop it's not going to seal. I'll do that Saturday. However, like the rim, the tyre shows no signs of blowout, bead damage or cut when inspected off the rim, inside or out.

If above is correct, the tyre may or may not have initially burped after the first bump strike. But what followed as I tried to steer out of the wobble was enough side force to push the tyre off the rim, a scary propositon. I have bought a replacement Venge with the same wheelset and there is obviously no way I'm running the Rovals tubeless.

However looking at other manufacturers who post bead lock info, from what I undersatnd, rims don't seem to have any way to lock the tyre into the bead lock if air escapes and side force is applied, only for the purposes of easier inflation.

[stevesbike]

good that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.

[jlok]

good that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.

You may actually check out the internal rim profile. No ridge/bead lock on the shoulders and center channel too shallow. Think about when the tubeless valve is installed, the beads would be pushed up and not easy to form a seal when seating the tire, esp with the bundled valves. Good luck using their plugs for tubeless. Is it fair to say they do tubeless alwrong?

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-15.jpg

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-16.jpg

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-17.jpg
(from https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/roval-c ... apability/ )

p.s. again, I got my set of Roval CLX32/50 right at the release, so not sure if they have updated them eventually. I bet not.

[stevesbike]

good that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.

You may actually check out the internal rim profile. No ridge/bead lock on the shoulders and center channel too shallow. Think about when the tubeless valve is installed, the beads would be pushed up and not easy to form a seal when seating the tire, esp with the bundled valves. Good luck using their plugs for tubeless. Is it fair to say they do tubeless alwrong?

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-15.jpg

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-16.jpg

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-17.jpg
(from https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/roval-c ... apability/ )

p.s. again, I got my set of Roval CLX32/50 right at the release, so not sure if they have updated them eventually. I bet not.

Tires - tubed or tubeless- rolling off rims after a rapid deflation are common. A bead lock (rim bead seat) isn't going to help in that case.

[jlok]

good that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.

You may actually check out the internal rim profile. No ridge/bead lock on the shoulders and center channel too shallow. Think about when the tubeless valve is installed, the beads would be pushed up and not easy to form a seal when seating the tire, esp with the bundled valves. Good luck using their plugs for tubeless. Is it fair to say they do tubeless alwrong?

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-15.jpg

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-16.jpg

https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-17.jpg
(from https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/roval-c ... apability/ )

p.s. again, I got my set of Roval CLX32/50 right at the release, so not sure if they have updated them eventually. I bet not.

Tires - tubed or tubeless- rolling off rims after a rapid deflation are common. A bead lock (rim bead seat) isn't going to help in that case.

Yea, the question is why the rapid deflation happen. Well, whatever. I was done with this CLX tubeless design long ago. Just to remind people becareful with CLX tubeless. I'd stay with tubes on CLX if I ever jump back to it.

[vinny]

What year was the bike? I have cl50 on my bike, SL6 (2019).

I thought that specialized changed the design of the wheels at some point. (Not sure about this maybe i am mis-remembering)

[andreas]

Yeah, they changed the design 2018-ish, the previous design was hookless, and shipped with plugs for the rim spoke holes instead of tubeless tape afaik.

Since the pictures include a hook, and they're on a Venge 2019 pro that shipped stock with the hooked rims, I assume it's the newest.

Ofc. the Roval Rapide CLX (and Roval Rapide CL50, but only sold together with complete bikes) is their latest design, but those are explicitly stated as not tubeless compatible, even though the rim profile has all the telltale signs.

[Arph]

That is one out of 9 lives wisely spent

Side note: wear gloves, you were lucky your right hand didn't get hurt more.

I'd just taken them off-ride started near freezing temps but got really warm!

Ah, bad timing For that reason, I'm starting to consider taking summer gloves with me when I start a ride in midseason gloves and changing weather ...

[Nadsta]

Over the past couple of weeks I’ve been able to speak directly with ENVE. Together we went through the sequence of events and the sensations I experienced from the front of the bike and they looked at the photos of the road condition and the tyre.

The consensus arrived at was :

1-Tyre burps on the first pothole strike and the sidewall is pushed into the centre of the rim

2-Total loss of pressure causes tyre to blow off and flip inside out

3- I ride on the inside out tyre. The rim pressure against the road causes approx 30 cuts* along the tyre bead-protecting the wheel rim hence the lack of damage to it’s circumference

4- As I fall, the side of the rim picks up some damage to one area only.

They then helped walk me through a tubeless rim design as defined by the ETRTO standard, and I can see how ENVE’s design of their tubeless rim offers additional protection against the problem I experienced. Comparing cross sections of say the Roval, ENVE and Hunt’s Limitless, the Roval bead shelf is much narrower, the centre channel much wider (and shallower) and there is no hump between the two. I’d guess the situation is compounded by running a 25mm tyre.

We also looked briefly at the ETRTO standard that was current when Roval released the CL/CLX which (from memory )mandated the ‘hump’ between the shelf and the centre drop (it doesn’t anymore for some reason, maybe a widened bead shelf). As such, I’m not even sure that the rim was ETRTO compliant and I will research this further and follow up with Roval. I contacted Specialized via their ‘Rider Care support’ link but I’ve still not heard anything. I’ll post more when I do.

*Initially I couldn't see much wrong with the tyre and couldn't wash off the sealant to inspect properly as my right hand was covered in dressings. When I did, I found approx 30 cuts alongside the bead.

I think this also concurs with what a few posters here have noted-narrow shelf and wider centre channel. Over on road.cc someone also posted this link on the thread I started re: hazards of running 25mm tyres tubeless: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/comm ... res-497374

[andreas]

Nothing from Specialized/Roval yet? Did you inspect the tubeless tape?

[ryanw]

Am I the only one thinking "You've just burped a tyre, there's no one to blame, sh*t happens..."?

What PSI did you have the tyre set to? I'm 85kg and have smashed some big pot holes down in Surrey / Kent, much worse than the ones in your pics, but never burped a roadbike tyre at 70-85psi.

Also to note, if that was a tubed tyre, you would have gone down immediately and probably have been far worse off. Count your lucky stars it's just your bike that's damaged.

[spdntrxi]

yeah solid "shit happens" catagory