Venge written off as Roval CL50 & Enve TLR tyre part company at 45kmh
Moderator: robbosmans
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I'm picking up the bike tonight and will send Enve the tyre's batch number, then they've promised a phone call. Nothing from Specialized UK yet though. I believe the wheels are 2 year crash warrantied, I'll guess they'll want to talk when I file that one.
In terms of what I've found since getting the bike back tonight-front rim has almost no damage other than a minor scuff where it tried to roll on the tarmac. I haven't checked how round/true it is but it looks fine. So no tyre de-rimming structural failure here. I've tried to reinflate the Enve tyre but until I clean off the dried gloop it's not going to seal. I'll do that Saturday. However, like the rim, the tyre shows no signs of blowout, bead damage or cut when inspected off the rim, inside or out.
If above is correct, the tyre may or may not have initially burped after the first bump strike. But what followed as I tried to steer out of the wobble was enough side force to push the tyre off the rim, a scary propositon. I have bought a replacement Venge with the same wheelset and there is obviously no way I'm running the Rovals tubeless.
However looking at other manufacturers who post bead lock info, from what I undersatnd, rims don't seem to have any way to lock the tyre into the bead lock if air escapes and side force is applied, only for the purposes of easier inflation.
If above is correct, the tyre may or may not have initially burped after the first bump strike. But what followed as I tried to steer out of the wobble was enough side force to push the tyre off the rim, a scary propositon. I have bought a replacement Venge with the same wheelset and there is obviously no way I'm running the Rovals tubeless.
However looking at other manufacturers who post bead lock info, from what I undersatnd, rims don't seem to have any way to lock the tyre into the bead lock if air escapes and side force is applied, only for the purposes of easier inflation.
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good that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.
You may actually check out the internal rim profile. No ridge/bead lock on the shoulders and center channel too shallow. Think about when the tubeless valve is installed, the beads would be pushed up and not easy to form a seal when seating the tire, esp with the bundled valves. Good luck using their plugs for tubeless. Is it fair to say they do tubeless alwrong?stevesbike wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:02 amgood that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-15.jpg
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-16.jpg
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-17.jpg
(from https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/roval-c ... apability/ )
p.s. again, I got my set of Roval CLX32/50 right at the release, so not sure if they have updated them eventually. I bet not.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10
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Tires - tubed or tubeless- rolling off rims after a rapid deflation are common. A bead lock (rim bead seat) isn't going to help in that case.jlok wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:13 amYou may actually check out the internal rim profile. No ridge/bead lock on the shoulders and center channel too shallow. Think about when the tubeless valve is installed, the beads would be pushed up and not easy to form a seal when seating the tire, esp with the bundled valves. Good luck using their plugs for tubeless. Is it fair to say they do tubeless alwrong?stevesbike wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:02 amgood that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-15.jpg
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-16.jpg
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-17.jpg
(from https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/roval-c ... apability/ )
p.s. again, I got my set of Roval CLX32/50 right at the release, so not sure if they have updated them eventually. I bet not.
Yea, the question is why the rapid deflation happen. Well, whatever. I was done with this CLX tubeless design long ago. Just to remind people becareful with CLX tubeless. I'd stay with tubes on CLX if I ever jump back to it.stevesbike wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:58 amTires - tubed or tubeless- rolling off rims after a rapid deflation are common. A bead lock (rim bead seat) isn't going to help in that case.jlok wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:13 amYou may actually check out the internal rim profile. No ridge/bead lock on the shoulders and center channel too shallow. Think about when the tubeless valve is installed, the beads would be pushed up and not easy to form a seal when seating the tire, esp with the bundled valves. Good luck using their plugs for tubeless. Is it fair to say they do tubeless alwrong?stevesbike wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 2:02 amgood that you're OK - not too sure what you're asking, but both tubeless and tubed clinchers will tend to roll off a rim if pressure drops rapidly and force is applied to wheel (braking or turning). I wouldn't say there's anything obviously defective just an unfortunate set of circumstances resulting in a frame failure.
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-15.jpg
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-16.jpg
https://cdn-ctstaging.pressidium.com/wp ... iew-17.jpg
(from https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/roval-c ... apability/ )
p.s. again, I got my set of Roval CLX32/50 right at the release, so not sure if they have updated them eventually. I bet not.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10
Yeah, they changed the design 2018-ish, the previous design was hookless, and shipped with plugs for the rim spoke holes instead of tubeless tape afaik.
Since the pictures include a hook, and they're on a Venge 2019 pro that shipped stock with the hooked rims, I assume it's the newest.
Ofc. the Roval Rapide CLX (and Roval Rapide CL50, but only sold together with complete bikes) is their latest design, but those are explicitly stated as not tubeless compatible, even though the rim profile has all the telltale signs.
Since the pictures include a hook, and they're on a Venge 2019 pro that shipped stock with the hooked rims, I assume it's the newest.
Ofc. the Roval Rapide CLX (and Roval Rapide CL50, but only sold together with complete bikes) is their latest design, but those are explicitly stated as not tubeless compatible, even though the rim profile has all the telltale signs.
Ah, bad timing For that reason, I'm starting to consider taking summer gloves with me when I start a ride in midseason gloves and changing weather ...
The consensus arrived at was :
1-Tyre burps on the first pothole strike and the sidewall is pushed into the centre of the rim
2-Total loss of pressure causes tyre to blow off and flip inside out
3- I ride on the inside out tyre. The rim pressure against the road causes approx 30 cuts* along the tyre bead-protecting the wheel rim hence the lack of damage to it’s circumference
4- As I fall, the side of the rim picks up some damage to one area only.
They then helped walk me through a tubeless rim design as defined by the ETRTO standard, and I can see how ENVE’s design of their tubeless rim offers additional protection against the problem I experienced. Comparing cross sections of say the Roval, ENVE and Hunt’s Limitless, the Roval bead shelf is much narrower, the centre channel much wider (and shallower) and there is no hump between the two. I’d guess the situation is compounded by running a 25mm tyre.
We also looked briefly at the ETRTO standard that was current when Roval released the CL/CLX which (from memory )mandated the ‘hump’ between the shelf and the centre drop (it doesn’t anymore for some reason, maybe a widened bead shelf). As such, I’m not even sure that the rim was ETRTO compliant and I will research this further and follow up with Roval. I contacted Specialized via their ‘Rider Care support’ link but I’ve still not heard anything. I’ll post more when I do.
*Initially I couldn't see much wrong with the tyre and couldn't wash off the sealant to inspect properly as my right hand was covered in dressings. When I did, I found approx 30 cuts alongside the bead.
I think this also concurs with what a few posters here have noted-narrow shelf and wider centre channel. Over on road.cc someone also posted this link on the thread I started re: hazards of running 25mm tyres tubeless: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/comm ... res-497374
Am I the only one thinking "You've just burped a tyre, there's no one to blame, sh*t happens..."?
What PSI did you have the tyre set to? I'm 85kg and have smashed some big pot holes down in Surrey / Kent, much worse than the ones in your pics, but never burped a roadbike tyre at 70-85psi.
Also to note, if that was a tubed tyre, you would have gone down immediately and probably have been far worse off. Count your lucky stars it's just your bike that's damaged.
What PSI did you have the tyre set to? I'm 85kg and have smashed some big pot holes down in Surrey / Kent, much worse than the ones in your pics, but never burped a roadbike tyre at 70-85psi.
Also to note, if that was a tubed tyre, you would have gone down immediately and probably have been far worse off. Count your lucky stars it's just your bike that's damaged.
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