New Bora Wheels?
Moderator: robbosmans
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No, it was against the 50mm ARC wheels.
Wide wheels are better, I will not believe anything else until proven to me.
I have tried out so many recent high end wheels, and the best of them all are easily the Roval Rapide CLX, which coincidentally are also by far the fattest. No wheel, including my 37mm deep Bontragers can't match this level of stability. Wind doesn't create any noticeable steering moment ever on them...
I would say the next best wheels for me are the 80mm deep DTSwiss ARC1100db 2020. They are 80mm deep and more stable (to me) than any of these: CLX64, Enve SES 7.8, ZIPP 858NSW, ZIPP 404 NSW, and Bontrager XXX6. The super fat design on them is not just blazing fast, but behaves amazing in gusty, strong winds.
For me, living near the North Sea shore, that is very important, with gusts of 60 to 80kph not uncommon.
I don't believe that a narrow rim can match that. Also, the DTSwiss and the Roval Rapide test among the fastest wheels out there.
Wide wheels are better, I will not believe anything else until proven to me.
I have tried out so many recent high end wheels, and the best of them all are easily the Roval Rapide CLX, which coincidentally are also by far the fattest. No wheel, including my 37mm deep Bontragers can't match this level of stability. Wind doesn't create any noticeable steering moment ever on them...
I would say the next best wheels for me are the 80mm deep DTSwiss ARC1100db 2020. They are 80mm deep and more stable (to me) than any of these: CLX64, Enve SES 7.8, ZIPP 858NSW, ZIPP 404 NSW, and Bontrager XXX6. The super fat design on them is not just blazing fast, but behaves amazing in gusty, strong winds.
For me, living near the North Sea shore, that is very important, with gusts of 60 to 80kph not uncommon.
I don't believe that a narrow rim can match that. Also, the DTSwiss and the Roval Rapide test among the fastest wheels out there.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Have you ever tried the Cannondale Hollowgram Knøt 64? Trying to decide between them and the more expensive and likely-to-be-replaced-by-tubeless-version Rapide CLX...FlatlandClimber wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:01 amNo, it was against the 50mm ARC wheels.
Wide wheels are better, I will not believe anything else until proven to me.
I have tried out so many recent high end wheels, and the best of them all are easily the Roval Rapide CLX, which coincidentally are also by far the fattest. No wheel, including my 37mm deep Bontragers can't match this level of stability. Wind doesn't create any noticeable steering moment ever on them...
I would say the next best wheels for me are the 80mm deep DTSwiss ARC1100db 2020. They are 80mm deep and more stable (to me) than any of these: CLX64, Enve SES 7.8, ZIPP 858NSW, ZIPP 404 NSW, and Bontrager XXX6. The super fat design on them is not just blazing fast, but behaves amazing in gusty, strong winds.
For me, living near the North Sea shore, that is very important, with gusts of 60 to 80kph not uncommon.
I don't believe that a narrow rim can match that. Also, the DTSwiss and the Roval Rapide test among the fastest wheels out there.
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- Posts: 2491
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm
No I haven't.
Do you ride your road tires tubeless? If not, Rapide CLX as they are are 10/10.
Otherwise SwissSide Hadron2/DTSwiss ARC dB are amazing, too.
Also, I am very positive We will see new ENVEs this year...
Do you ride your road tires tubeless? If not, Rapide CLX as they are are 10/10.
Otherwise SwissSide Hadron2/DTSwiss ARC dB are amazing, too.
Also, I am very positive We will see new ENVEs this year...
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
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- Posts: 2491
- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm
According to Camapags own testing, the new 45s are on par with the SwissSide Hadron2 485 speed wise. Not sure how this will be on independent testing. Regardless, that would be very good, although I doubt they are as stable.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
I think what this is all showing is the universal acceptance of disc brakes has now led to a really exciting time for wheels
You see the rapides, new zips, new Bontys and these are really pushing the envelope
Some of these rims are wider than MTB rims of 5 yrs ago...
You see the rapides, new zips, new Bontys and these are really pushing the envelope
Some of these rims are wider than MTB rims of 5 yrs ago...
Warning - Inherently biased:
www.bespokecycling.com
www.bespokecycling.com
There must be some optimum point beyond which wider becomes worse, or else we'd all be riding fatbikes. Or better yet, spherical instead of toroidal rubber with a very long axle passing through the middle.FlatlandClimber wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:01 amWide wheels are better, I will not believe anything else until proven to me.
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- Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm
I am certain there is. But these new WTO wheels are 19c internal, 27mm external, which is pretty narrow. Considering a fat Roval Rapide or Hunt Limitless tests as fast as these in the windtunnel, but handles a lot better in crosswinds, and also costs a lot less, we are back at "heart not head" purchase. Which is fine, but not what they market it as.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Yeah, I've ridden tubeless for the past 5 years, but for nothing particular except having more confidence in the case of a puncture on a downhill stretch (and TBH it's kinda cool being able to use colored valves).FlatlandClimber wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:17 pmNo I haven't.
Do you ride your road tires tubeless? If not, Rapide CLX as they are are 10/10.
Otherwise SwissSide Hadron2/DTSwiss ARC dB are amazing, too.
Also, I am very positive We will see new ENVEs this year...
My actual experience with tubeless tires regarding punctures is the same as tube-type, happens once every other year (I replace tires after 4000-5000km, and never run "TT" models). And its a real hassle if you have to put a tube in a tubeless tire while out riding, takes forever. Also, not a fan of cleaning up dried out sealant.
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- Location: Winnipeg Canada
Of course literally 2 weeks ago my WTO 60s arrived with the CULT bearing kit... oh well... these are literally double the price of a regular WTO, and alot of the "free roll" comes from the CULT bearing..
You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I must say that my WTO 60s handle extremely well in cross winds - not tried the others though but struggle to believe they could be much better? I think a lot of the WTO stabilty maybe comes from the diamond spoke though.FlatlandClimber wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pmI am certain there is. But these new WTO wheels are 19c internal, 27mm external, which is pretty narrow. Considering a fat Roval Rapide or Hunt Limitless tests as fast as these in the windtunnel, but handles a lot better in crosswinds, and also costs a lot less, we are back at "heart not head" purchase. Which is fine, but not what they market it as.
The one thing that does frustrate me with the narrow(ish) profile of the WTOs is having to be careful to pick 25mm tyres that actually measure only 25mm!
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- Posts: 1927
- Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
- Location: Winnipeg Canada
I found the same with my WTO 60s on my SL6.. they were more stable than my CLX 50s or CLX 64s.. I still love my good old Ultra 50s..kevinw wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:05 pmYou're obviously entitled to your opinion but I must say that my WTO 60s handle extremely well in cross winds - not tried the others though but struggle to believe they could be much better? I think a lot of the WTO stabilty maybe comes from the diamond spoke though.FlatlandClimber wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pmI am certain there is. But these new WTO wheels are 19c internal, 27mm external, which is pretty narrow. Considering a fat Roval Rapide or Hunt Limitless tests as fast as these in the windtunnel, but handles a lot better in crosswinds, and also costs a lot less, we are back at "heart not head" purchase. Which is fine, but not what they market it as.
The one thing that does frustrate me with the narrow(ish) profile of the WTOs is having to be careful to pick 25mm tyres that actually measure only 25mm!
The CLX50/64 are pretty bad stability-wise though.ParisCarbon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:15 pmI found the same with my WTO 60s on my SL6.. they were more stable than my CLX 50s or CLX 64s.. I still love my good old Ultra 50s..
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- Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
- Location: Winnipeg Canada
I didnt think they were too bad to be honest.. the WTO are more stable... but then again when you are in a 40kmh crosswind like I was today and semis coming at you at 100kmh on a single lane highway opposite direction, theres really nothing thats gonna be to stable with any depth to it!andreas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:34 pmThe CLX50/64 are pretty bad stability-wise though.ParisCarbon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:15 pmI found the same with my WTO 60s on my SL6.. they were more stable than my CLX 50s or CLX 64s.. I still love my good old Ultra 50s..
What has a wind tunnel got to do with riding a bike in the real world with changing wind directions & twisty roads?FlatlandClimber wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pmConsidering a fat Roval Rapide or Hunt Limitless tests as fast as these in the windtunnel, but handles a lot better in crosswinds, and also costs a lot less, we are back at "heart not head" purchase.
I have bought the bora ultra wto 45 as an upgrade and am thinking of using 25mm tubeless Goodyear Eagle F1 (tan wall) as I couldn't find the schwalbe pro one tan in stock, and don't want the conti gp in full black.
25mm Goodyear should be just 25mm on that rim, which would be lower than the 26mm ext width and hence follow the 105 rule.
Would you recommend 25mm or 28mm for this wheelset? The campy website says it's optimised for 25mm tire due to the internal/external rim width, but wondering if putting on a 28mm TL would create a huge difference/disadvantage from an aero perspective... trying to assess the trade off between comfort and aero... wouldn't want to put on a tire that doesn't make sense for those wheels (especially as the cost of a wheel is so much higher than the cost of a tire.)
25mm Goodyear should be just 25mm on that rim, which would be lower than the 26mm ext width and hence follow the 105 rule.
Would you recommend 25mm or 28mm for this wheelset? The campy website says it's optimised for 25mm tire due to the internal/external rim width, but wondering if putting on a 28mm TL would create a huge difference/disadvantage from an aero perspective... trying to assess the trade off between comfort and aero... wouldn't want to put on a tire that doesn't make sense for those wheels (especially as the cost of a wheel is so much higher than the cost of a tire.)
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