New Bora Wheels?

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kevinw
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

I'd only consider a 28mm on the back. If you are at all bothered about areo keep to 25mm on the front.

Ypuh
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Ypuh

ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:48 pm
Of course literally 2 weeks ago my WTO 60s arrived with the CULT bearing kit... oh well... these are literally double the price of a regular WTO, and alot of the "free roll" comes from the CULT bearing..
I've read this before, but it's like you bought a VW Up and a week later Volkswagen announces a new Golf GTI. If they were in the same price range it might be a bit sour, but probably you already weighed your options in your price range and weren't all of a sudden going to double the budget.

I love Zipp/Bora wheels for their everyday use capabilities, but with the new NSW and Ultra series your walking in Lightweight territory. For that price range I'd like something more unique than a Campa wheel.
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ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Ypuh wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:22 am
ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:48 pm
Of course literally 2 weeks ago my WTO 60s arrived with the CULT bearing kit... oh well... these are literally double the price of a regular WTO, and alot of the "free roll" comes from the CULT bearing..
I've read this before, but it's like you bought a VW Up and a week later Volkswagen announces a new Golf GTI. If they were in the same price range it might be a bit sour, but probably you already weighed your options in your price range and weren't all of a sudden going to double the budget.

I love Zipp/Bora wheels for their everyday use capabilities, but with the new NSW and Ultra series your walking in Lightweight territory. For that price range I'd like something more unique than a Campa wheel.
If the new wheel was available at the time, I would have got the new wheel.. it is what it is... Bike24 offered me to return the wheels / CULT kit for a full refund when they arrived since they were never used.. the problem is the tracked shipping costs for a set of wheels from Canada to Germany is "only" $450 THAT hardly makes it worth it...

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Umm is this legit.. or an error... https://granfondo-cycling.com/news-camp ... 21-review/

"If you believe the calculations of Campagnolo, the Bora Ultra WTO wheels are the fastest in the 25-year history of Bora. Assuming a 70 kg, 175 cm rider completes a 150 km course, 50 km of which is uphill with an average gradient of 5%, with an average power of 3 W/kg, the 45mm version is said to be seven seconds faster compared to the cheaper and heavier Bora WTO 45 wheel – both tubeless built. Compared to the Bora One 50 wheels, the difference is said to be over three minutes (with clincher tires) or over seven minutes (with tubular tires)."

Id think the Ultra would be more than 7 seconds faster over 150km given the hidden nipple and CULT bearings?

kevinw
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

by kevinw

Hmmm.... not sure the clincher Bora One 50 would be 4 min faster than the lighter tub version for a start.

Vuong05
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:52 am

by Vuong05

ParisCarbon wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:15 pm
kevinw wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:05 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:00 pm
I am certain there is. But these new WTO wheels are 19c internal, 27mm external, which is pretty narrow. Considering a fat Roval Rapide or Hunt Limitless tests as fast as these in the windtunnel, but handles a lot better in crosswinds, and also costs a lot less, we are back at "heart not head" purchase. Which is fine, but not what they market it as.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I must say that my WTO 60s handle extremely well in cross winds - not tried the others though but struggle to believe they could be much better? I think a lot of the WTO stabilty maybe comes from the diamond spoke though.

The one thing that does frustrate me with the narrow(ish) profile of the WTOs is having to be careful to pick 25mm tyres that actually measure only 25mm!
I found the same with my WTO 60s on my SL6.. they were more stable than my CLX 50s or CLX 64s.. I still love my good old Ultra 50s..
Was in 65 kph cross winds with a few friends 2 weeks ago when we crossed a big suspension bridge, and everyone hung on for dear life.... I'm 68 kg and was riding my BORA WTO 60 wheels. Others in the group were riding the Roval Rapide on their SL7s, CLX50 on an SL6, Meilenstein on an Ostro, Zipp 454 NSW on a R3 and Knot 64 on a SystemSix.

Once we passed the bridge, the cross winds settled down to about 40 kph sustained with a few burst up to 50 kph. No one really had any difficulty at those cross wind speeds, other than our one friend on Lightweights. Unless the wind conditions in your area are usually that of a hurricane, I don't see how cross winds are an issues with any of these wheels.
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Luca199
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pm

by Luca199

What would be an equivalent /better wheelset for the same price of campagnolo bora ultra wto (£2800)? Would that be Enve, that retails around £2900/£3000? Not sure if enve's quality is any better than campagnolo's quality, though...

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

No. Enve can't come close to Campy even if you put them side by side. Both are now molded holes but the finishing on Campy is much better, if not the best out there.
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Luca199
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pm

by Luca199

Thanks for the advice, then I'll stick with them :)

I just wish there was a good 25mm (or even 28mm) tubeless tire with tan wall... the Goodyear eagle F1 doesn't convince me too much due to high RR and not many reviews, whereas schwalbe pro one Addix TLE is completely out of stock and also has some bad reviews on puncture protection (although RR is better)...

I guess I'll just go ahead with full-black Gp Conti 5000 TL 25mm on the new bora ultra wto 45, and if not too comfortable, I'll change to 28mm even though less aero..

Uselessman001
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:40 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

by Uselessman001

Luca199 wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:21 pm
What would be an equivalent /better wheelset for the same price of campagnolo bora ultra wto (£2800)? Would that be Enve, that retails around £2900/£3000? Not sure if enve's quality is any better than campagnolo's quality, though...
Although it is not yet listed in the catalogue on their official website, we have been told by LBS that Mavic will launch the "Cosmic Ultimate Disc UST" in May 2021 (they should have already taken orders from dealers).

# This is not a tubular ”Cosmic Ultimate T Disc” wheel, "Ultimate" version of the UST/Clincher wheel.
# No need for tubeless tape (no holes).
# The weight is 1250g for the front and rear set
# The rim height is 40mm and the outer width is 26mm, with NACA profile.
# The spokes are connected by a "R2R(rim to rim) technology", which gives the wheel a high rigidity.
# The price is around £2800, the same as the tubular version.

We're not sure yet, but I think this wheel from MAVIC will be a great competitor to the BORA ULTRA WTO!
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Luca199
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pm

by Luca199

jlok wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:49 am
No. Enve can't come close to Campy even if you put them side by side. Both are now molded holes but the finishing on Campy is much better, if not the best out there.
And do you have any opinions on the brand new Zipp 353 NSW, I think they have also just been released (carbon, undulating, 45mm, lightest wheelset but only tubeless, etc). How would they compare to the new bora ultra wto?

Looks like the zipp has 25mm int rim width, so way more optimised for wider tubeless tyres.. just keen to know quality differences between campy and zipp.

Thanks!

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

My friend has the current generation 303FC (if that could tell anything about 353...) and it looks alright. It just lack the luxury feel of the Campy rims and hubs. To each of their own they certainly look unique, but I really can't tell the quality as I don't own the Zipps.

Can you go to LBS and check them out? I bet you'd like the Campy more ;)
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

snaxez
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:14 pm
Location: Estonia

by snaxez

Luca199 wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:18 am
Thanks for the advice, then I'll stick with them :)

I just wish there was a good 25mm (or even 28mm) tubeless tire with tan wall... the Goodyear eagle F1 doesn't convince me too much due to high RR and not many reviews, whereas schwalbe pro one Addix TLE is completely out of stock and also has some bad reviews on puncture protection (although RR is better)...

I guess I'll just go ahead with full-black Gp Conti 5000 TL 25mm on the new bora ultra wto 45, and if not too comfortable, I'll change to 28mm even though less aero..
What about Veloflex Corsa Evo TLR with gum sidewall?

usr
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

jlok wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:49 am
Disc brake rims are easier to produce, and hence lower cost and skills. With a higher selling price, I'd just push disc brake for easy profit if I were the industry. I think Campy makes sense.

Not just that. A rim option wouldn't be one new rim, it would be two new rims: rims for disk usually share the same shape and spoke pattern for front and rear, but "rim rims" usually differ. At least the spoke patterns do, and once that's a given it's also less of an extra cost to make the profiles differ as well. And with those Ultra WTO where spoke holes are not just drilled anywhere but actually part of the mold (or so they claim), front and rear would have to be separate manufacturing lines from the very first step.

They might do an intermediate version with regular WTO rims and a "last edition" of non-disc carbon/CULT hubs, particularly if they consider a "last edition" update of aluminium Shamals that would share that hub, but my bets are that they won't. Just like they never did the "Super Zonda"/"Steel Shamal"/"Inverted Eurus" that would have combined Shamal-level hubs (and Rims, if they even differed?) with steel spokes, which would have been quite dangerous for my wallet.

(what do I mean with "last edition"? The rim niche is already quite small, but chances are that there'll be a long tail of rim buyers long after the current generation of disc parts will be supplanted. Usually they plan for, I don't know, about five years per model generation? "Last generation" rim stuff would still be latest gen ten years from now)

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jgman
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:08 pm

by jgman

New Bora Ultra WTO 45 wheels arrived today. Using on a new build.
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