Carbon Ti dissapointment

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jas0nt
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:08 am

by jas0nt

nickf wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:46 pm
I do recall when I first received these wheels the bearings in the front hub were new but completely shot. Loud audible click on one of them and the other was notchy and not smooth at all. Same even after removing them, inner race would hardly turn. Not sure if they hammered the hell out of the axle during install or removal but I had to replace both bearings before I could even ride them. Both my novatec farsports builds so far have been flawless. Maybe they just don't have the experience with hubs that need a little more attention when assembling.
Baffles the mind that they don't have any QC that would pick that up.

snaxez
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by snaxez

Does this apply to only rim brake Carbon-Ti hubs from FarSports or disc ones too? I just ordered 45mm Feder rims with Carbon-Ti disc hubs...

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

My wheels are built by R2, no problem, roll as new. I was 85Kgs when i started riding these....
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

jokerpt50
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:47 am

by jokerpt50

oh man I was about to pull the trigger on some feder with carbon ti hubs....now I am rethinking if it is worth it to wait for dt180 price to come down or farsports sale

RDY
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by RDY

Mod really ought to rename thread to Farsports CarbonTi problems. It's not really fair on CarbonTi, as it seems to be Far going beyond recommended spoke tensions and lacing rim brake ones the wrong way round.
snaxez wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:21 am
Does this apply to only rim brake Carbon-Ti hubs from FarSports or disc ones too? I just ordered 45mm Feder rims with Carbon-Ti disc hubs...
There's no way for them to do it the wrong way round, as the rims aren't directional for disc. Even if they were, the disc mount has to be on the left if you want to use the caliper.

They could still however over tension the spokes.

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nickf
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by nickf

Here we go again. This is the warranty replacement hub. Was rebuilt around 2 years ago. Well taken care of and built by a very experienced wheel builder. They have been in storage bags hanging in the garage for a few weeks. The spokes are perfect, so nothing randomly hit the wheel. I'm right at the 2 years for the warranty, will see what they say. All I know is that I'm done with these hubs.

Image

jlok
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

nickf wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:56 pm
Here we go again. This is the warranty replacement hub. Was rebuilt around 2 years ago. Well taken care of and built by a very experienced wheel builder. They have been in storage bags hanging in the garage for a few weeks. The spokes are perfect, so nothing randomly hit the wheel. I'm right at the 2 years for the warranty, will see what they say. All I know is that I'm done with these hubs.

Image
The spoke angle seems to be not aligning with the spoke hole angle on the flange?
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

That is most unfortunate. Are there other similar failures? I would think that we should see a lot of this, and yet I don't recall other similar reports. Perhaps it's happening but just not being publicly reported. I have 3 sets of Carbon ti and so far so good but I will be keeping a close eye on them.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

The spokes weren't laced over/under. It does seem like it would have helped the angles in the hubs if they were. Would it have saved this hub? Unlikely.

Is the rim asymmetric or drilled off-center? Could be a compounding problem, no over-under AND off-center holes. Just guessing here. Hard to say for sure.

Those are some odd looking angles. Let us know what they say please. It's like the wheel was dished towards the NDS side a lot.

Another thing to check is if the rim was drilled to be a triplet, with some holes angled the wrong way. Or NDS spokes went into DS drillings in the rim etc. Again, alone it shouldn't produce a broken hub but compunding the problems, it might.

There does seem to be very little material around the trailing DS spoke holes. If the builder went a bit crazy with the tensions, or the rider is a heavier dude that likes to crank it hard, it could lead to this.

Is it possible the spoke heads corroded and expanded inside the hub? Maybe if they were a super tight fit.

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nickf
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by nickf

I always thought the lacing seemed extreme but that's how they came. My builder has over a decade of experience in building wheels, I trust his work and judgment. He didn't remark that anything was off when he built them and the wheel dish was jam on. Sat in the frame and the dish tool perfectly. Who knows.

Carbon Ti replied that they would warranty the hub but they are blaming over tension. I also supplied that photo, they didn't mention anything about the spoke angels. Just about 2 years riding these wheels pretty exclusively. I have been through 1 front hub, and now 2 rear hubs. I'm around 79kg, average power.

Plenty of people riding these hubs with no issues. They just aren't meant to be for me. Bad lacing, tension, bad drilling in the rim? I just don't know. I know I have never had this many issues with a wheelset.

tjvirden
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by tjvirden

nickf wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:19 pm
I always thought the lacing seemed extreme but that's how they came. My builder has over a decade of experience in building wheels, I trust his work and judgment. He didn't remark that anything was off when he built them and the wheel dish was jam on. Sat in the frame and the dish tool perfectly. Who knows.

Carbon Ti replied that they would warranty the hub but they are blaming over tension. I also supplied that photo, they didn't mention anything about the spoke angels. Just about 2 years riding these wheels pretty exclusively. I have been through 1 front hub, and now 2 rear hubs. I'm around 79kg, average power.

Plenty of people riding these hubs with no issues. They just aren't meant to be for me. Bad lacing, tension, bad drilling in the rim? I just don't know. I know I have never had this many issues with a wheelset.
It's very irritating to have this sort of problem, but I don't think it's a surprise: at 79Kg and - I assume - quite high mileage, you will put a lot of work through your gear. What you've shown us is classic aluminum fatigue failure of a component that simply can't take the sustained normal use, that you put it through. Years back I had similar problems with HED hubs (front and rear and freehub bodies); lovely to begin with, then cracks appearing here and there as the Kms went up. The rims were fine, but the hubs went in the bin.

On that final failure, I would say that the spoke angle doesn't look right and may well be the main reason for it failing so soon - the spokes need to be in a straight line. I know lots of people haven't had problems with these hubs - and other Carbon-Ti stuff - but you'll be at the upper end of combined weight and usage I think.

The front hub failure could be avoided, or pushed far into the future, by bead blasting the outside of the hub shell, where the spokes are. You'll see that on Bontrager/Trek hubs (some other brands too).

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nickf
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by nickf

Frustrating to say the least. Things just didn't pan out for one reason or another with these wheels. Tjvirden summed it up well. I wonder how the spokes look on other farsports rim brake build with these hubs. Are they in a straight line or are they sitting off in the hub? For now I'm back to my old trusty Bontrager aeolus 5 tubs.

tiz92
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by tiz92

I see the most issues with Carbon Ti hubs recently. Glad I didnt go for them.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

tiz92 wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:12 am
I see the most issues with Carbon Ti hubs recently. Glad I didnt go for them.
So what exactly did you see? Same failure as nickf? Or something else? Don't leave us hanging.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

RDY
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:58 am
tiz92 wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:12 am
I see the most issues with Carbon Ti hubs recently. Glad I didnt go for them.
So what exactly did you see? Same failure as nickf? Or something else? Don't leave us hanging.
There have been a lot of spoke flange breakages posted lately, and even some pretty scary looking hub body cracking or failure. Either something seems amiss with the design / manufacturing, or they require very specific lacing which isn't being adhered to or CTi are doing a poor job of communicating.

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