Carbon Ti dissapointment

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mrlobber
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Have had 2 sets of chinese rims (neither LB nor Farsports) on CarbonTi's, good for 8000+ km without issues.
Now I have 2 other sets of Farsports rims on CarbonTi's, unridden yet, gotta have to recheck the spoke tensions based on things read in this thread.
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biwa
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

Visqu wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:31 pm
harblhat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:05 pm
Perhaps a coincidence, but Farsports no longer has anything displayed under Kaze rim brake with Carbon-Ti hubs on their site. They still stock Kaze and Feder with Carbon-Ti hubs, though.
Indeed a coincidence.
I made a claim a couple of days ago that they laced my Carbon Ti front hub incorrectly, as in flipped left to right. Otherwise no issue but the rim has a grooved brake track.

This causes the preload mechanism to open in the direction of the wheel rotation, a possible problem if the locking fails or is not screwed tight enough. Simple solution of course is to flip the axle as the hub is symmetrical.

Anyway, at first they repeatedly claimed that the hub was correctly laced and built up, then when I confirmed with Carbon Ti, they proceeded to claim that all their other hubs are installed this way and only Carbon Ti is different so they install those the same way too and that it is not an issue at all. Deny there is a problem, downplay the problem and then claim that it is not a problem at all, good job.

I really expect to have my stuff built up to correct specification so I'm still waiting for a satisfactory outcome in the form of a partial refund based on my time and effort on this issue. This will still leave my front hub logo upside down when viewed from the front of the bike, an eyesore.

So, being a bit harsh, knowing left from right is a challenge, how about spoke tension?
Any pic to visualize what's wrong? Thanks

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jzinckgra
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm
Location: Maine, USA

by jzinckgra

Wanted to order some Feders with carbon Ti, but Sandy said they were out of stock. Offered to give me 10% off if I went with DT180

Visqu
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:19 pm

by Visqu

biwa wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:18 am
Visqu wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:31 pm
harblhat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:05 pm
Perhaps a coincidence, but Farsports no longer has anything displayed under Kaze rim brake with Carbon-Ti hubs on their site. They still stock Kaze and Feder with Carbon-Ti hubs, though.
Indeed a coincidence.
I made a claim a couple of days ago that they laced my Carbon Ti front hub incorrectly, as in flipped left to right. Otherwise no issue but the rim has a grooved brake track.

This causes the preload mechanism to open in the direction of the wheel rotation, a possible problem if the locking fails or is not screwed tight enough. Simple solution of course is to flip the axle as the hub is symmetrical.

Anyway, at first they repeatedly claimed that the hub was correctly laced and built up, then when I confirmed with Carbon Ti, they proceeded to claim that all their other hubs are installed this way and only Carbon Ti is different so they install those the same way too and that it is not an issue at all. Deny there is a problem, downplay the problem and then claim that it is not a problem at all, good job.

I really expect to have my stuff built up to correct specification so I'm still waiting for a satisfactory outcome in the form of a partial refund based on my time and effort on this issue. This will still leave my front hub logo upside down when viewed from the front of the bike, an eyesore.

So, being a bit harsh, knowing left from right is a challenge, how about spoke tension?
Any pic to visualize what's wrong? Thanks
The wheel has directional grooves on the brake track, thus it can only be installed in one orientation on the bike that would result in the correct direction of rotation. The hub is flipped left to right in regard to the correct orientation, the Carbon Ti manual shows that the preload system should be on the right side of the bike when looking in the direction of bike travel. Now, my picture is taken head on at the bike and you can see that the hub is flipped and the preload is actually on the left side of the bike.

The preload mechanism on the rear hub has a left handed thread, front hub has a right handed thread, the same idea as with pedals when installed correctly.
So, failing to install the hub correctly may lead to the preload mechanism loosening catastrophically while riding.
Highly unlikely though, as long as the grub screw on the preload ring is set.

What I find most annoying is that Farsports went very far to deny everything and then finally claim that it doesn't matter and I'm the only one who cares.
For some reason they claim that they're unable to issue a partial refund and I've been offered a discount on further purchases.
Not sure how I feel about that.
Attachments
carbonti.PNG
x-hub.jpg

mrlobber
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Visqu wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:05 am
The preload mechanism on the rear hub has a left handed thread, front hub has a right handed thread, the same idea as with pedals when installed correctly.
So, failing to install the hub correctly may lead to the preload mechanism loosening catastrophically while riding.
Highly unlikely though, as long as the grub screw on the preload ring is set.
Hold on for a second.

I just checked my rim brake Farsports built last fall on Carbon Ti's, and the front wheel has exactly the same config as in your picture.

So it looks like they are building the wheels according to their specs, not Carbon Ti's specs :roll:
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Visqu
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:19 pm

by Visqu

mrlobber wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:41 pm
Visqu wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:05 am
The preload mechanism on the rear hub has a left handed thread, front hub has a right handed thread, the same idea as with pedals when installed correctly.
So, failing to install the hub correctly may lead to the preload mechanism loosening catastrophically while riding.
Highly unlikely though, as long as the grub screw on the preload ring is set.
Hold on for a second.

I just checked my rim brake Farsports built last fall on Carbon Ti's, and the front wheel has exactly the same config as in your picture.

So it looks like they are building the wheels according to their specs, not Carbon Ti's specs :roll:
Well, that's not good. Not surprised though, their replies indicated that they would have been doing this with most, if not all builds.

mrlobber
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Myself, when I inspected the wheels upon arrival, sort of thought - OK, the preloads are on the same side for front & rear, makes sense. Obviously, I didn't check the Carbon Ti docs and it looks like Farsports didn't either :D
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nickf
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

My rims are pre grooved rims. Guess I lucked out there.

That would drive me nuts and would have to get them re-laced.

Visqu
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:19 pm

by Visqu

nickf wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:47 pm
My rims are pre grooved rims. Guess I lucked out there.

That would drive me nuts and would have to get them re-laced.
Yeah, flipping the axle to place the preload on the correct side still leaves the logo upside down :|
I suppose I can live with that, time will tell.

biwa
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

Visqu wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:05 am
The wheel has directional grooves on the brake track, thus it can only be installed in one orientation on the bike that would result in the correct direction of rotation. The hub is flipped left to right in regard to the correct orientation, the Carbon Ti manual shows that the preload system should be on the right side of the bike when looking in the direction of bike travel. Now, my picture is taken head on at the bike and you can see that the hub is flipped and the preload is actually on the left side of the bike.

The preload mechanism on the rear hub has a left handed thread, front hub has a right handed thread, the same idea as with pedals when installed correctly.
So, failing to install the hub correctly may lead to the preload mechanism loosening catastrophically while riding.
Highly unlikely though, as long as the grub screw on the preload ring is set.

What I find most annoying is that Farsports went very far to deny everything and then finally claim that it doesn't matter and I'm the only one who cares.
For some reason they claim that they're unable to issue a partial refund and I've been offered a discount on further purchases.
Not sure how I feel about that.
Very clear, thanks for the clarification. I wonder why they seem to insist/keep doing this. Lacing in the right orientation shouldn't be any harder or easier for their builders and I don't think it'll make any difference with their rims. So what gives? Laziness?

Visqu
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:19 pm

by Visqu

biwa wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:18 am
Visqu wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:05 am
The wheel has directional grooves on the brake track, thus it can only be installed in one orientation on the bike that would result in the correct direction of rotation. The hub is flipped left to right in regard to the correct orientation, the Carbon Ti manual shows that the preload system should be on the right side of the bike when looking in the direction of bike travel. Now, my picture is taken head on at the bike and you can see that the hub is flipped and the preload is actually on the left side of the bike.

The preload mechanism on the rear hub has a left handed thread, front hub has a right handed thread, the same idea as with pedals when installed correctly.
So, failing to install the hub correctly may lead to the preload mechanism loosening catastrophically while riding.
Highly unlikely though, as long as the grub screw on the preload ring is set.

What I find most annoying is that Farsports went very far to deny everything and then finally claim that it doesn't matter and I'm the only one who cares.
For some reason they claim that they're unable to issue a partial refund and I've been offered a discount on further purchases.
Not sure how I feel about that.
Very clear, thanks for the clarification. I wonder why they seem to insist/keep doing this. Lacing in the right orientation shouldn't be any harder or easier for their builders and I don't think it'll make any difference with their rims. So what gives? Laziness?
No problem.
I'd imagine that they've misinterpreted the instructions and never looked back, until now.

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nickf
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

I do recall when I first received these wheels the bearings in the front hub were new but completely shot. Loud audible click on one of them and the other was notchy and not smooth at all. Same even after removing them, inner race would hardly turn. Not sure if they hammered the hell out of the axle during install or removal but I had to replace both bearings before I could even ride them. Both my novatec farsports builds so far have been flawless. Maybe they just don't have the experience with hubs that need a little more attention when assembling.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Sure the preload was set properly?

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nickf
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

alcatraz wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:29 pm
Sure the preload was set properly?
They were like that out of the box. Loosened the preload adjuster, same. The bearings were permanently damaged from the builder.

biwa
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

nickf wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:46 pm
I do recall when I first received these wheels the bearings in the front hub were new but completely shot. Loud audible click on one of them and the other was notchy and not smooth at all. Same even after removing them, inner race would hardly turn. Not sure if they hammered the hell out of the axle during install or removal but I had to replace both bearings before I could even ride them. Both my novatec farsports builds so far have been flawless. Maybe they just don't have the experience with hubs that need a little more attention when assembling.
So basically you received a new pair of wheels with a broken front hub and wrongly tensioned rear (which develops crack soon after), both caused by wheel building errors?! Maybe the title of this thread should be Farsport disappointment NOT carbon ti dissappointment?

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