Best/Fastest 45-50mm Tubeless wheelset

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Locked
Yoln
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

On the market for a new pair of wheels

Looking for tubeless in the 45-50mm deep range

Reading Hambini test, it looks like these 3 are the most aero:

- Borg 50c
- Yoeleo C50
- Bora One 50

https://www.hambini.com/testing-to-find ... le-wheels/

My eyes are very attracted by the Bora WTO 45mm, is it safe to assume they are as good if not better than the ultra (better rim profile, wider rim)?

Any other competitors in mind (assuming $2000 max budget)?
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

by Weenie


FlatlandClimber
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

The general rule goes: a deeper wheel will likely be faster than a shallower wheel. Also, get a width, that fits the tire width you want to ride. I don't think there are any wheels that are fastest with a 28c. I have the ENVE SES 4.5 AR (which are massively wide) and they are faster with a 25c than with a 28c. Many other wheels will be faster with a 23c than with a 25c (I am talking aerodynamics, rolling resistance is a different thing again and totally depends on the speed and surface).
I guess the fastest wheel (in any situation) at "around" $2k is the Roval Rapide CLX. They work perfectly with 25c, are fast, and also have the least steering moment at cross winds of any wheel that I own (Rapide CLX, CLX64, Hadron2 800, ENVE SES 4.5 and 5.6, ZIPP 858).
If that is too much and you are not on a time crunch, maybe weight for the lighter version of them set to release a few months down the line.
A fast rolling tire will likely make a bigger difference, than the difference between two equally deep wheels will ever be, so go check on that front also.
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.8kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.5kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Aethos (2021) 6.4kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (soon)

*all weights include pedals, computer mounts, and bottle cages.

Yoln
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Thanks

Consensus seems to be in favor of the WTO 45mm versus the Cl/CLx here: viewtopic.php?t=160782 at least in windy conditions


That's a good question about the tires, I'll be riding them with 25mm fast tires when racing. Potentially GP5k tubeless or Vitoria Corsa/corsaspeed tubeless, so not much to gain over there...
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

Cycomanic
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:10 pm

by Cycomanic


Yoln wrote:Thanks

Consensus seems to be in favor of the WTO 45mm versus the Cl/CLx here: viewtopic.php?t=160782 at least in windy conditions


That's a good question about the tires, I'll be riding them with 25mm fast tires when racing. Potentially GP5k tubeless or Vitoria Corsa/corsaspeed tubeless, so not much to gain over there...
I heard the GP5k in tubeless are quite difficult to get onto the WTOs, but I've never tried. I'm very happy with my wto45/pro1 combo (in 25mm), very easy to put on didn't even need levers. And the pro1 roll very nicely.

Another wheelset to consider are the winspace hyperX, they tested very well with hambini and peak torque also rated the highly on stiffness.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


Kaludrob
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:55 pm

by Kaludrob

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:41 pm
The general rule goes: a deeper wheel will likely be faster than a shallower wheel. Also, get a width, that fits the tire width you want to ride. I don't think there are any wheels that are fastest with a 28c. I have the ENVE SES 4.5 AR (which are massively wide) and they are faster with a 25c than with a 28c. Many other wheels will be faster with a 23c than with a 25c (I am talking aerodynamics, rolling resistance is a different thing again and totally depends on the speed and surface).
I guess the fastest wheel (in any situation) at "around" $2k is the Roval Rapide CLX. They work perfectly with 25c, are fast, and also have the least steering moment at cross winds of any wheel that I own (Rapide CLX, CLX64, Hadron2 800, ENVE SES 4.5 and 5.6, ZIPP 858).
If that is too much and you are not on a time crunch, maybe weight for the lighter version of them set to release a few months down the line.
A fast rolling tire will likely make a bigger difference, than the difference between two equally deep wheels will ever be, so go check on that front also.
The fastest wheels in that range were the DTSwiss ARC1100 in the latest Tour mag.
Attachments
D03AE415-B8B3-4ADA-91AC-E9D1682C3732.jpeg
2018 Specialized Tarmac Expert

User avatar
Greatestalltime
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:47 pm

by Greatestalltime

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dolophonic
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:43 am
Location: The 'Dena

by dolophonic

I/d go CAmpy Boras//

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Kaludrob wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:22 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:41 pm
The general rule goes: a deeper wheel will likely be faster than a shallower wheel. Also, get a width, that fits the tire width you want to ride. I don't think there are any wheels that are fastest with a 28c. I have the ENVE SES 4.5 AR (which are massively wide) and they are faster with a 25c than with a 28c. Many other wheels will be faster with a 23c than with a 25c (I am talking aerodynamics, rolling resistance is a different thing again and totally depends on the speed and surface).
I guess the fastest wheel (in any situation) at "around" $2k is the Roval Rapide CLX. They work perfectly with 25c, are fast, and also have the least steering moment at cross winds of any wheel that I own (Rapide CLX, CLX64, Hadron2 800, ENVE SES 4.5 and 5.6, ZIPP 858).
If that is too much and you are not on a time crunch, maybe weight for the lighter version of them set to release a few months down the line.
A fast rolling tire will likely make a bigger difference, than the difference between two equally deep wheels will ever be, so go check on that front also.
The fastest wheels in that range were the DTSwiss ARC1100 in the latest Tour mag.
Although I am a fan of the new DTs (I have the identical Swiss Side Hadron2 Ultimate as 80mm for my TT bike), I doubt you could call 0.3W faster in a wind tunnel "a faster wheel". No power measurement tool I know it is reliably more accurate than +/- 0.5%, so really unlikely, this can be verified.

Nevertheless, it really depends on what you want. The Rapide are probably the fastest (aero + weight) option if you don't need/ want TL. Also, it is by far the most stable in crosswinds I have ever used in my life.
If you want TL, the DT/ Swiss Side are definitely a great Option, too.
Cervélo S5 Disc (2019) - 7.8kg
Open Cycles WI.DE (2019) - 8.5kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Aethos (2021) 6.4kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (soon)

*all weights include pedals, computer mounts, and bottle cages.

Milese
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:04 am

by Milese

Kaludrob wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:22 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:41 pm
The general rule goes: a deeper wheel will likely be faster than a shallower wheel. Also, get a width, that fits the tire width you want to ride. I don't think there are any wheels that are fastest with a 28c. I have the ENVE SES 4.5 AR (which are massively wide) and they are faster with a 25c than with a 28c. Many other wheels will be faster with a 23c than with a 25c (I am talking aerodynamics, rolling resistance is a different thing again and totally depends on the speed and surface).
I guess the fastest wheel (in any situation) at "around" $2k is the Roval Rapide CLX. They work perfectly with 25c, are fast, and also have the least steering moment at cross winds of any wheel that I own (Rapide CLX, CLX64, Hadron2 800, ENVE SES 4.5 and 5.6, ZIPP 858).
If that is too much and you are not on a time crunch, maybe weight for the lighter version of them set to release a few months down the line.
A fast rolling tire will likely make a bigger difference, than the difference between two equally deep wheels will ever be, so go check on that front also.
The fastest wheels in that range were the DTSwiss ARC1100 in the latest Tour mag.
I've not translated the words, but what this tells me from what I can see is....

40mm deep @ 30mm wide = 223w
45mm deep @ 27/28mm wide = 219.5w ish (Bora & Enve)
50mm deep @ 27 / 35mm = 218w ish (DT Swiss & Roval) - not quite an equal comparision, but guess the narrowness of the DT gives similar gain as the extra 1mm depth front and 10mm on the rear?

So, shock horror, deeper wheels are more aero....(small sample size and not sure what they did with tyres etc)

Is there any reason to think that Farsports etc wheels of the same sizes would test any differently?

Kaludrob
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:55 pm

by Kaludrob

to be honest i dont think so. I would get the lightbicycle Falcon pro ar45 with Carbon ti hubs and sapim spokes. A below 1300gr. Wheelset for 1300 USD plus shipping
2018 Specialized Tarmac Expert

Yoln
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Kaludrob wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:22 pm

The fastest wheels in that range were the DTSwiss ARC1100 in the latest Tour mag.

Awesome, thanks for the data!

Rovals are also a strong contender in that test if you consider Speed and Stiffness

Any more details on how the compute the seitenstefigkeit / lateral stiffness number? Actually all the numbers if you have :)
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

Yoln
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Kaludrob wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:52 pm
to be honest i dont think so. I would get the lightbicycle Falcon pro ar45 with Carbon ti hubs and sapim spokes. A below 1300gr. Wheelset for 1300 USD plus shipping
That's what the reasonable inner me is telling me as well. My climbing LB 35 falcon pro flyweight are doing an amazing job at 1245g (dts240 hub) and I wouldn't mind going the same way for deeper ones. But there's also the other inner me that just wants a pair of butter smooth gorgeous campy WTO...
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

Yoln
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Cycomanic wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:55 am

Another wheelset to consider are the winspace hyperX, they tested very well with hambini and peak torque also rated the highly on stiffness.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
Nice, definitely very aero. Pretty heavy for a wheel with carbon spokes no? 1425g for a disc version, that's about 100g heavier than what I can get from LB with Sapim spokes...
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

ViperFFM
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

Yes it is weightweenies but it should be commin knowledge now that a weight diffrence of couple of hundred grams in neglectable compared to aero gains.

ID go Fulcrum Wind DB55

by Weenie


stevesbike
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:33 pm

by stevesbike

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:05 pm
Kaludrob wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:22 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:41 pm
The general rule goes: a deeper wheel will likely be faster than a shallower wheel. Also, get a width, that fits the tire width you want to ride. I don't think there are any wheels that are fastest with a 28c. I have the ENVE SES 4.5 AR (which are massively wide) and they are faster with a 25c than with a 28c. Many other wheels will be faster with a 23c than with a 25c (I am talking aerodynamics, rolling resistance is a different thing again and totally depends on the speed and surface).
I guess the fastest wheel (in any situation) at "around" $2k is the Roval Rapide CLX. They work perfectly with 25c, are fast, and also have the least steering moment at cross winds of any wheel that I own (Rapide CLX, CLX64, Hadron2 800, ENVE SES 4.5 and 5.6, ZIPP 858).
If that is too much and you are not on a time crunch, maybe weight for the lighter version of them set to release a few months down the line.
A fast rolling tire will likely make a bigger difference, than the difference between two equally deep wheels will ever be, so go check on that front also.
The fastest wheels in that range were the DTSwiss ARC1100 in the latest Tour mag.
Although I am a fan of the new DTs (I have the identical Swiss Side Hadron2 Ultimate as 80mm for my TT bike), I doubt you could call 0.3W faster in a wind tunnel "a faster wheel". No power measurement tool I know it is reliably more accurate than +/- 0.5%, so really unlikely, this can be verified.

Nevertheless, it really depends on what you want. The Rapide are probably the fastest (aero + weight) option if you don't need/ want TL. Also, it is by far the most stable in crosswinds I have ever used in my life.
If you want TL, the DT/ Swiss Side are definitely a great Option, too.
They aren't directly measuring power - it's a conversion based on drag that consumers find more informative. But you're right on the bigger point: the small differences in these wheels makes them essentially equivalent, and the Zipps are shallower so of course you'd expect them to be slightly less aero.

Locked