Has anyone compared the braking performance of the latest and greatest from these two. I have a set of the Farsports Kaze with the HMX and ATA surface. When paired with Swissstop Black Prince brake pads the performance has been extraordinarily good. I don't think I have ever experienced more stopping power with less finger effort. The braking is so strong that care is needed to modulate and avoid rear lock up. They require a really sensitive hand.
I am curious to know if people's experience with Light Bicycle grooved rim braking has been similar, or if they have had a chance to compare with the the Farsports.
Farsports vs Light Bicycle rim braking performance
Moderator: robbosmans
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I was told they're basically the same braking track and tech by the same manufacturer/factory; slightly different QA standards and cosmetic finishes, and the companies are positioned differently on the value chain of Xiamen carbon. Difference in actual braking performance, not so much.
That is pretty much the impression that I had. I do have some LB wheels but they are disc so no firsthand impression on LB rim brake performance for me.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
If there's too much texture you get less dry weather bite.
When the grooves are lasered and not molded you get less flat surface area lost and more bite. If the edges of the grooves are defined, and the grooves thin , they're usually lasered. If they're wide probably molded and a bit more slippery.
Exposed carbon in a certain layup brakes better. So you can compare if the layup is the same and if the carbon is shiny or not. Shiny means it's got some epoxy over it which doesn't brake well. If it's matte and perfectly flat it's probably machined = exposed + flat = good bite.
I don't know which layup brakes better. Just that some is needed to optimize heat dissipation.
When the grooves are lasered and not molded you get less flat surface area lost and more bite. If the edges of the grooves are defined, and the grooves thin , they're usually lasered. If they're wide probably molded and a bit more slippery.
Exposed carbon in a certain layup brakes better. So you can compare if the layup is the same and if the carbon is shiny or not. Shiny means it's got some epoxy over it which doesn't brake well. If it's matte and perfectly flat it's probably machined = exposed + flat = good bite.
I don't know which layup brakes better. Just that some is needed to optimize heat dissipation.
Some have closer ties to the end factory than others and have different mixes of customers (OEMs vs. consumers) hence slightly different costs/pricings. They mostly differentiate on customer service and to a less degree marketing. I'm talking about the reputable ones here, not those with substantially cheaper and worse products.
To be fair, a lot of that wear could be the toe in I initially set the pads to. Those pics are after first ride with the wheels and pad combo. I only have a few hundred KMs on the wheels to this point and pad wear isn’t as extreme.
Not the truth. Too much lasered texture will make the surface very rough, which can increase both dry and wet bite in a good extent, but the pads will be worn out much more quickly. Some heavily textured rims ( abandoned α versions) can wear out a pair of black prince in a 20-30km 6% descent (80kg total weight).
You don't brake on the gaps but the flat part. A machined track without grooves will brake the best as long as it's clean (assuming carbon layup optimized for braking).
It's possible that a few grooves help clean the pads. Depends what pad you have perhaps. With soft pads like black prince in dry conditions you just get a mess when they smear their residue over the wheel.
Black princes wear out fast on any surface. If there is less surface then of course they wear out faster. Less surface = higher pressure.
Fast wearing pads is not a problem with the rim. I take better bite over longer lasting pads any day. Black princes didn't impress me at all so luckily I don't have to make that choice.
Track tires are all slick, all weather have tons of texture.
It's possible that a few grooves help clean the pads. Depends what pad you have perhaps. With soft pads like black prince in dry conditions you just get a mess when they smear their residue over the wheel.
Black princes wear out fast on any surface. If there is less surface then of course they wear out faster. Less surface = higher pressure.
Fast wearing pads is not a problem with the rim. I take better bite over longer lasting pads any day. Black princes didn't impress me at all so luckily I don't have to make that choice.
Track tires are all slick, all weather have tons of texture.
I do not know how grooved surface performs in wet conditions but flat surface is terribly dangerous when used with lots of rain regardless pads used. (It might be ok if you're descending on known road so you can start applying brakes much sooner but if it comes to sudden situation in traffic when you need to stop they simply will not work when you need them) That would be my first priority in choosing brake track surface.
This is related to LB rims
This is related to LB rims
Last edited by IvanZg on Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not right again. The bite force depands on the fraction coefficient and the force on the rim, not the surface area -- simple junior physics f = mu * FN. The method and craft how different brands laser their rims can affect the coefficient. Also material can.alcatraz wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:40 amYou don't brake on the gaps but the flat part. A machined track without grooves will brake the best as long as it's clean (assuming carbon layup optimized for braking).
It's possible that a few grooves help clean the pads. Depends what pad you have perhaps. With soft pads like black prince in dry conditions you just get a mess when they smear their residue over the wheel.
Black princes wear out fast on any surface. If there is less surface then of course they wear out faster. Less surface = higher pressure.
Fast wearing pads is not a problem with the rim. I take better bite over longer lasting pads any day. Black princes didn't impress me at all so luckily I don't have to make that choice.
Track tires are all slick, all weather have tons of texture.
The most powerful brake track on the market now is still Zipp new NSW, but those α versions with heavy texture were tested even more powerful.
How much is the friction coefficient of the gaps. Zero or almost zero?
I don't quite trust that chinese brake test where the Zipp's and Black Prince's came out first. It would be nice to see more tests to get a general concensus. Either way I wouldn't pick zipps for rain racing on rim brakes.
I maintain that texture is for wet braking, with the distinction that the jump from 0 to 0.1% texture helps to keep the pads clean.
I don't quite trust that chinese brake test where the Zipp's and Black Prince's came out first. It would be nice to see more tests to get a general concensus. Either way I wouldn't pick zipps for rain racing on rim brakes.
I maintain that texture is for wet braking, with the distinction that the jump from 0 to 0.1% texture helps to keep the pads clean.
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