Carbon Ti or Dt Swiss 240 Exp for Climbing Disc Wheels

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Pinguin
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

I want to buy a lightweight Wheelset for my new Discbike
I m not shure of the hubs
Carbon Ti are lighter but Dt Swiss are very stayable when ride a lots in bad weather
Which one have better geometry?

I am also not shure how much spokes are enough?
I have 68 kg and Ftp is 5 watts/kg
Are 24 rear and front ok?(Cx Ray spokes)

Pukutis
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:00 pm

by Pukutis

Pinguin wrote:I want to buy a lightweight Wheelset for my new Discbike
I m not shure of the hubs
Carbon Ti are lighter but Dt Swiss are very stayable when ride a lots in bad weather
Which one have better geometry?

I am also not shure how much spokes are enough?
I have 68 kg and Ftp is 5 watts/kg
Are 24 rear and front ok?(Cx Ray spokes)
I have the same weight and watt performance. I have just bought enve 3.4 with dt swiss exp.


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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

The Carbon ti are excellent hubs. Assuming a carbon rim of 35mm or more, 24 spokes will be enough at your weight. Body mass and very short duration peak power stresses wheels, not FTP watts.

Can't comment on weatherproofing, but I have seen mention that better seals are used recently. And I only have them on my good weather bike so no personal experience there.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

5w/kg 😍. I touched on 5w/kg ftp this summer and could get a significant amount of flex in my frame and wheels.

How about 5gr spokes like cx-sprint to not flex so much under hard acceleration or braking?

You might benefit from riding carbon spoked wheels, or stiff wheels like bora wto. But these kinds of wheels are a bit pricey. Maybe check chinese carbon spoked wheels?

If you want reliability though maybe go with 5gr steel spokes and carbonti. If you plan to get even stronger then maybe look into a 28h wheelset. I saw chinese dt240 "inspired" 28h disc hubs 334gr for a set, for around 100usd on the chinese market. A strong heavy friend will be building a wheelset with them soon.

Also if you want sprint friendly wheels you might not want to go too deep on the rims. The hubs and spokes stop doing their jobs at the rim interface. After that it's the rim's stiffness that takes over. 50mm could be the limit.

If these were wheels for a rim brake bike and you climb seated in good weather, I would recommend 4gr spokes like cx-ray and maybe extralite hubs, and you would have gotten quite a lot lighter wheels. But seeing as your braking relies on the wheel build, and brake forces are going to exceed those of 5w/kg rider can excert in torque, you might not want to go the thin 24h spoke build.

Pinguin
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

Will go with Farsport or Lightbicycle 35x28 Rims
Defenitly choose Cx Sprint on rear driveside
With these 24-24 combination wheels should be stiff enough?
What i read problem with disc wheels is the braking in front which brings a lot of stress to the spokes(only front)

This is the reason im not shure for getting 28 spokes

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

For seated climbing and medium speed descending fine either way.

If you're going to do hilltop sprint finishes and bomb down on switchbacks, I wouldn't lean 24h cx-ray.

On my rim brake bikes all my front wheels are 16h cx-ray and I'm not afraid to sprint or descend. But my braking doesn't depend on it.

My rear wheels are usually 21h and I can feel the flex. But I'm rarely out of the seat. I can do 600-700w seated for those last punches. I'm not a pro and it's not worth it for me to build the wheel for that rare short moment.

My point is, what's your riding style? If you can avoid doing 1000w standing up, and won't race down switchbacks, you'll be fine.

Pinguin
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

Definitly no Sprints
Only Climbing with max 450 Watts on intervalls
Normal speed descending

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Then 24h carbon-ti will be fine. Cx-sprint or any other 5gr spoke for that big brand feel. (No big brand wheel uses 4gr spokes like cx-ray.)

I think you'll be fine with 4 or 5gr at that weight and that usage.

Pinguin
Posts: 271
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

alcatraz wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:07 pm
Then 24h carbon-ti will be fine. Cx-sprint or any other 5gr spoke for that big brand feel. (No big brand wheel uses 4gr spokes like cx-ray.)

I think you'll be fine with 4 or 5gr at that weight and that usage.
Thanks a lot
Cx Sprint on drive side is enough?
Or complete wheels with sprint?

Milese
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:04 am

by Milese

Sorry to hijack thread, but similar questions for advice whilst people are thinking in these lines.

73kg
Flat sprints up to 1300w if I'm in the occasional running in a crit
Disc
Farsports Feder rims either 45 or 55.
24 x CX Ray ok?
Same hub choices as above.

I'm not sure if the additional rim depth changes anything to the advice already given.

Thanks everyone.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Cx-ray won't fail. They just flex a bit more. Seeing as you're both at the bottom of the normal weight range a wheelset usually has to accomodate you can probably get away with it.

Problem is if you want to match or have a competitive edge over zipps/boras or not.

Lightweights probably rule crits, until you crash and break them.

Personally I don't like the spongyness of disc brake braking with thin spokes so I'd probably just go 5gr (cx-sprint) front and back.

If it's a rim brake bike and you want to have a good sprint ensure you have 5gr or more spokes in the rear, and both sides crossed, ideally straightpull, and wide big flanges. Not too deep rim either. Tubulars probably will shine here when trying to pull away from someone hanging on.

Check out carbon spoked wheels. They could be the new edge for that kind of riding. There are some now where you can swap broken spokes even. Like hyper-x.

Milese
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:04 am

by Milese

Thanks for your advice.

Is it better to add stiffness with changing from CX ray to CX sprint or to go from 24 to 28 spokes?

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

28h gives you the option to beef up the spokes later. 24h cx-sprint is kind of a dead end if it happens to not be stiff enough.

The hub geometry influences a lot if a cx-ray (or equivalent) will proove stiff enough, or a cx-sprint won't meet expectations.

When I look at a zipp 177 rear hub it looks very generous in the size of its flanges (and separation). When you put 24 cx-sprint spokes (or equivalent) into a hub like this you probably end up with a stiffness equivalent to a 32 spoke cx-ray with normal hubs.

So to answer your question, it kind of depends. I'm a lightweight guy myself that happens to be a weightweenie that rides 99% seated. I haven't been looking for great geometry hubs. For my style of riding any hub is ok. So I can't really recommend one.

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

alcatraz wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:07 pm
Then 24h carbon-ti will be fine. Cx-sprint or any other 5gr spoke for that big brand feel. (No big brand wheel uses 4gr spokes like cx-ray.)

I think you'll be fine with 4 or 5gr at that weight and that usage.
Actually... on this... Zipp has the 303 firecrest with cx-sprint and the very high end 353 NSW with cx-ray so your sentence does not apply. Cx-ray seems to be reserved to the more premium offerings of also the big brands.

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alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

pmprego wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:09 am
alcatraz wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:07 pm
Then 24h carbon-ti will be fine. Cx-sprint or any other 5gr spoke for that big brand feel. (No big brand wheel uses 4gr spokes like cx-ray.)

I think you'll be fine with 4 or 5gr at that weight and that usage.
Actually... on this... Zipp has the 303 firecrest with cx-sprint and the very high end 353 NSW with cx-ray so your sentence does not apply. Cx-ray seems to be reserved to the more premium offerings of also the big brands.
You're right. There are many of examples out there where premium wheels use lighter spokes.

However there is little doubt that a cx-sprint will outperform a cx-ray.

I'm surprised to hear that zipp use cx-ray spokes. It's not their style after watching their wheels over the years.

All my own wheels are low spoke count light spokes and they're not bad, but I don't make claims that they are high performing. It's just a style of wheel.

Also there is a situation where a lighter spoked wheel can outperform a heavier spoked wheel and that's if the hub geometry has been greatly improved. Has it? I'm curious to see pictures.

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