Goodyear UHP tubeless tires

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AnkitS
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA

by AnkitS

If you got the 28mm ones, that's probably a good idea. If its the 30mm ones give em a try and report back!

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sethjs
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

@icantaffordcycling is getting the exact same symptom I got. About the same amount of lift, too.

Net: really bad idea to run the 28c tubeless f1 (apparently regular (which is what I had) and supersport (what icantafforscycling has) on 25c / hookless. I was on 4.5AR and icantaffordcycling on the same rimbed shape, but the 3.4AR.

The 25c clinchers on 21 internal wheels with latex tubes have been pretty good so far. One flat at 500 miles. Currently at 750 miles. Some glass cuts starting to show.

sethjs
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Oh I should mention, I have a theory that @JuniorVarsity could maybe substantiate or not, which is that the bead on the tubeless is more shaped than typical and the angle beyond what a 23 internal creates makes the bead not sit correctly and thus the tire appears lifted. In reality it's sitting on a "higher" edge of the bead. But that's pure conjecture.

AnkitS
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

by AnkitS

My theory was just that these tires aren't actually hookless compatible. Hense, asking if anyone else has tried this on narrower hookless rims.

Wierdly ENVE has the 32c all seasons on their approved list but no other GY tires on either list. I haven't seen any other hookless test mention these at all, namely the CADEX Tire test protocol.

Junior Varsity
in the industry
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Location: 35,000' | 11,0668m

by Junior Varsity

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:54 am
My theory was just that these tires aren't actually hookless compatible. Hense, asking if anyone else has tried this on narrower hookless rims.

Wierdly ENVE has the 32c all seasons on their approved list but no other GY tires on either list. I haven't seen any other hookless test mention these at all, namely the CADEX Tire test protocol.
This is incorrect. We are following guidelines proposed for the ISO 5775-1 standards of Acceptable Tire/Rim Combinations. For a 28mm section width tire, we use a design inner rim width of 19mm with a maximum allowable inner rim width of 24mm as outlined. I cannot speak for other companies (either rim or tire) and their recommendations.

Please also note that ETRTO guidelines limit maximum tire pressure to 72.5 psi / 5 bar for Tubeless Straight Sidewall (TSS) aka ‘Hookless’ type rims.
Doing bike things.

sethjs
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

[mention]Junior Varsity [/mention] what do you think is happening with the lifting a couple of us have now observed?

Got it that it’s not approved / doesn’t follow etrto. But curious what you think is causing it?


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Junior Varsity
in the industry
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Location: 35,000' | 11,0668m

by Junior Varsity

sethjs wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:10 pm
[mention]Junior Varsity [/mention] what do you think is happening with the lifting a couple of us have now observed?

Got it that it’s not approved / doesn’t follow etrto. But curious what you think is causing it?


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I cannot say for sure but from my quick read-through, you both are using the same rim which is out of our (and ISO agreed upon) allowable fitments.
Doing bike things.

Hexsense
Posts: 3269
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Alright,
It's time for my first impression (finally be able to ride complete set).
It is Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport tube-type 28c front and rear on Light-bicycle AR56 (23mm ID, with rim hook). Pressure:60psi front, 65psi rear. Rider weight: 64kg

The bad:
Both tires are not as round as my Continental GP5000. My GP5000(s) are perfectly round with no tread wobble in any way.
With the Goodyear, there are some spots that the tire is a tiny bit taller than the other. And it also have a tiny amount of left/right tread wobble. Just a tiny.
This is definitely by far not the worse I have seen. And without a stand, I wouldn't be able to tell about this little bit out of round.

The average:
My GP5000 clincher version fit on this wheel effortlessly. After I mount it but leave both bead in the middle channel, I can still rotate the tire to align the logo with the valve.
On Goodyear, I still can rotate the tire to align the logo when one bead is on. But I can't when both bead are on the wheel.
The Goodyear's bead is grippier and the circumference seems a bit smaller. So it is a harder fit. When I pump up the tire there are multiple loud bang, just like when I fit tubeless tire eventhough this is tube-type version. My prior Conti also have this sound but not to same degree. Goodyear have 5 loud bang at a higher tire pressure versus Continental GP5000's two loud bang at a lower pressure. I think this is because of the tighter bead.

The good:
The hype about grip is real. When the rubber touch the road for the first time, I travel very slowly and turn the bar. There is a tire screeching sound as I force it to turn. At a faster speed, the sensation of grippy tire is still there. Overall, I like it. :thumbup:

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naylor343
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: Haute-Ariege, Midi-Pyrenees

by naylor343

Junior Varsity wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:12 pm
icantaffordcycling wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:54 am
My theory was just that these tires aren't actually hookless compatible. Hense, asking if anyone else has tried this on narrower hookless rims.

Wierdly ENVE has the 32c all seasons on their approved list but no other GY tires on either list. I haven't seen any other hookless test mention these at all, namely the CADEX Tire test protocol.
This is incorrect. We are following guidelines proposed for the ISO 5775-1 standards of Acceptable Tire/Rim Combinations. For a 28mm section width tire, we use a design inner rim width of 19mm with a maximum allowable inner rim width of 24mm as outlined. I cannot speak for other companies (either rim or tire) and their recommendations.

Please also note that ETRTO guidelines limit maximum tire pressure to 72.5 psi / 5 bar for Tubeless Straight Sidewall (TSS) aka ‘Hookless’ type rims.
Hi junior varsity,

Going by your post above, if I get the 28mm tyres, they will measure 28mm on my 19mm inner width rims?

Thanks.

Hexsense
Posts: 3269
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

^^
I'm not him but say it should be close.
28mm tire measure 28.5mm on 23mm ID when new and then 29.3mm after it stretch a bit. By rule of thumb that road bike sized tire expand about 0.35mm every 1mm of rim ID, then 29.3-4*0.35=27.9mm

@Junior Varsity
If
28mm tire measure 28mm on 19mm ID,
30mm tire measure 30mm on 21mm ID
..
Isn't that means 30mm casing is just very little bit wider than the 28mm version?
I mean 28mm one supposed to measure 28.7mm on 21mm ID rim anyway. So it's only 1.3mm additional width on the same rim?

Tofast
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:22 am

by Tofast

As i wrote in an earlier post my 28mm eagle F1 tubeless measured 29.3mm on first assembly with an inner width 21mm.

3phase
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:26 am

by 3phase

Any idea when the new tanwall tubeless will be available?

sethjs
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Re: grip - going to have to revisit my assessment. On the F1 SS clinchers today, climbing Old La Honda, which was "damp", my rear wheel kept slipping on the steep ramps. I noticed the same thing a couple weeks ago - same deal - slipping on the steeper ramps. They're ~22% for those not familiar with Old La Honda. Obviously only happens when wet.

Unfortunately, today, on the 84 descent back down, taking a curve in the same damp conditions rather slow given the earlier slipping on the climb (GPS says I was doing 18-20 and the curve in the dry would be 30mph, speed limit 25 with no warning signs), both tires simultaneous lost traction. I actually regained control - but unfortunately was pointing in the wrong direction and couldn't get stopped before running over the edge.

Net: I'd now say, in the dry, very high grip. I've pushed them really hard. They've been great. But in the wet, they have about the same grip as a Continental GP5000. Not as much as the Corsas.

Big consumer wish - I *really* wish manufacturers would release their wet/dry grip data. They have it. Only people who I've ever seen publish it are Mavic.

Final thought - for those who rip it down 84 (as I do in the dry) - I have a newfound respect for the road. Be damn careful. I literally tumbled 100 ft down a ~40% grade. Dumb luck that it wasn't a tree or rock that stopped the fall. So bad that my phone ejected from my pocket, I couldn't find it after the crash, and I had to go back with another device and use the sound alert with find my phone. See pic - you *don't* want to overcook these turns.

Image

AnkitS
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

by AnkitS

Yikes

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easyv
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:11 pm
Location: USA, Bay Area, CA

by easyv

sethjs wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:41 am
Re: grip - going to have to revisit my assessment. On the F1 SS clinchers today, climbing Old La Honda, which was "damp", my rear wheel kept slipping on the steep ramps. I noticed the same thing a couple weeks ago - same deal - slipping on the steeper ramps. They're ~22% for those not familiar with Old La Honda. Obviously only happens when wet.

Unfortunately, today, on the 84 descent back down, taking a curve in the same damp conditions rather slow given the earlier slipping on the climb (GPS says I was doing 18-20 and the curve in the dry would be 30mph, speed limit 25 with no warning signs), both tires simultaneous lost traction. I actually regained control - but unfortunately was pointing in the wrong direction and couldn't get stopped before running over the edge.

Net: I'd now say, in the dry, very high grip. I've pushed them really hard. They've been great. But in the wet, they have about the same grip as a Continental GP5000. Not as much as the Corsas.

Big consumer wish - I *really* wish manufacturers would release their wet/dry grip data. They have it. Only people who I've ever seen publish it are Mavic.

Final thought - for those who rip it down 84 (as I do in the dry) - I have a newfound respect for the road. Be damn careful. I literally tumbled 100 ft down a ~40% grade. Dumb luck that it wasn't a tree or rock that stopped the fall. So bad that my phone ejected from my pocket, I couldn't find it after the crash, and I had to go back with another device and use the sound alert with find my phone. See pic - you *don't* want to overcook these turns.

Image
Sorry to hear about your experience! Looks like I ride a lot of the same roads you do and all of the descents off of Skyline -- King's Mountain, La Honda, Page Mill -- all are fun as heck in the dry but can see where some wet patches on some of those curves with less than great traction could turn ugly pretty quickly. Glad to see that, as scary as I'm sure it was at the time, looks like you came through without any injuries.

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