Veloflex Servizio Corse: best tubular tyre?

[1415chris]

Blister is not a good sign. It is simply rubber separating from the casing. Potential glue issue? Broken threads would result the tub going out of it’s regular shape, something like this:

[exctasy]

These tubs really feel good and fast!
I've about 2700km on them.
However over the weekend, i did some descending on a damp road and i nearly had a wash out.
The rear wheel just skidded when I leaned in! Somehow I managed to stay upright!!
for the record, i was descending very slow and cautiously!

How are your experiences with these tyres in the wet?

[elfuinha]

These tubs really feel good and fast!
I've about 2700km on them.
However over the weekend, i did some descending on a damp road and i nearly had a wash out.
The rear wheel just skidded when I leaned in! Somehow I managed to stay upright!!
for the record, i was descending very slow and cautiously!

How are your experiences with these tyres in the wet?

I've riding this tubular on wet roads (Not in the rain), but i don't know why i trust more the Vittoria Graphene 2.0 more than i do this one, maybe the pattern in the vittoira evaquate water better or the rubber is diferent, just my filling.

on this tubular i've had a rear wheel slip because of braking, but was the cause of rear wheel lock do to heavy braking, manage to correct on go my way.

in dry i trust them a lot, to the point on my last ride i was decending and curving in a very low angle i they start to squeak, like you are in a car curving at high speed... i think this was limit of the Grip.

Note: i'm on the Pro Tour Race Version... not the Service Course.

[exctasy]

I've riding this tubular on wet roads (Not in the rain), but i don't know why i trust more the Vittoria Graphene 2.0 more than i do this one, maybe the pattern in the vittoira evaquate water better or the rubber is diferent, just my filling.

on this tubular i've had a rear wheel slip because of braking, but was the cause of rear wheel lock do to heavy braking, manage to correct on go my way.

in dry i trust them a lot, to the point on my last ride i was decending and curving in a very low angle i they start to squeak, like you are in a car curving at high speed... i think this was limit of the Grip.

Note: i'm on the Pro Tour Race Version... not the Service Course.

Yes i trust these a lot in the dry..but on wet roads, the vittoria corsa 2.0 just feels safer and re-assuring.

[ninjabrewer]

I've never had the OP subject tire, but I have been riding Veloflex tires for a while now, both clincher and Tubs. The tubs ride fantastic, but they keep blowing out. First one (Arenberg), POW, repaired by that place in FL, (name escapes me at the moment), less than 100 mi later, POW. Next one (The model that replaced Arenberg) I had on the back, has maybe 500mi, had a slow leak, Orange seal fixed it. The one day, POW. Had them inflated to around 90-95 psi. Ive got one more tub that I will mount next week. I'have ordered a pair of clinchers from them for my clincher wheelset. I like ride tubbies, but I don't really want to keep having tires than only last a few 100 miles. I still have both and looking to replace the tube if I can, they both have sealant in them and not sure why they blew like they did. All 3 times that has happened I didn't see anything on the road. The clinchers I have had pretty good luck with.

Just my 2c

I am thinking seriously about try out the tubeless versions of their tires, anyone have any experience with them?

NB.

[mrlobber]

I've never had the OP subject tire, but I have been riding Veloflex tires for a while now, both clincher and Tubs. The tubs ride fantastic, but they keep blowing out. First one (Arenberg), POW, repaired by that place in FL, (name escapes me at the moment), less than 100 mi later, POW. Next one (The model that replaced Arenberg) I had on the back, has maybe 500mi, had a slow leak, Orange seal fixed it. The one day, POW. Had them inflated to around 90-95 psi. Ive got one more tub that I will mount next week. I'have ordered a pair of clinchers from them for my clincher wheelset. I like ride tubbies, but I don't really want to keep having tires than only last a few 100 miles. I still have both and looking to replace the tube if I can, they both have sealant in them and not sure why they blew like they did. All 3 times that has happened I didn't see anything on the road. The clinchers I have had pretty good luck with.

The sidewall blowout is more like punctures - pure luck. I've ridden Veloflex tubs as long as I remember, but have had only 2 sidewall blowouts, both after inadvertently hitting a piece of rock on the road with the side of the tub. Then again, just had a new Conti ProLTD ALX, and after 450km, sidewall explodes on a straight stretch of the road. Go figure.

I am thinking seriously about try out the tubeless versions of their tires, anyone have any experience with them?

In this same subforum, there's a long thread on them. Generally, it looks like most people who have tried them, now avoid them, including many of the local tubeless gurus (like Tobin)

[mrlobber]

My experience with the ProTour 25mm version is that I won't ride them anywhere else but flat roads anymore.

Rode the Haute Route Pyrenees on a disc bike with Veloflex Arenberg on the rear, and Veloflex Service Course on the front, could bomb down descents (on my speed) without any problem.

Then, after the event ended, moved to rim brake bike I had with me as a backup for some more fun in the mountains, which had Veloflex ProTour on the rear, and ProTour Race on the front. And that experience was scary. While descending in rain, had the rear skipping multiple times, and after the rain ended, and the road was dry, had a long slide almost straight in the wall when simple braking from 45 kph had the rear washing out, but somehow managed to stay upright and regain control.

TBH, my ProTour look to be made before Veloflex did the silent unannounced upgrade of their tubs in Q3 2020 "to improve grip in the wet" (their Record tire also became slower at that point, as they added silica into their "natural rubber" compound), however, given that I didn't experience anything like this when riding Arenberg, and don't remember such slides from previous years when I was in the mountains on Veloflex Carbons / Extremes (23mm), I'm actively looking into other tub options already.

[Alexandrumarian]

Then, after the event ended, moved to rim brake bike I had with me as a backup for some more fun in the mountains, which had Veloflex ProTour on the rear, and ProTour Race on the front. And that experience was scary. While descending in rain, had the rear skipping multiple times, and after the rain ended, and the road was dry, had a long slide almost straight in the wall when simple braking from 45 kph had the rear washing out, but somehow managed to stay upright and regain control.

Is this the same you posted about a while ago, happening at about 2 deg C? I wonder if the very low temperature could have had a (big) hand in the grip reduction.

A pair I used this summer was Dugast Strada front and Michelin Competition rear. I'm not into differentiated f/r, it just happened. Been in rain, and after rain, in the hills, felt very very good. But neither tire has super low RR imo. The Michelin was thin and light though, I guess with a pro compound aimed for mixed conditions (marketing mentions their all season compound being used, not sure if just shoulders or middle too. Dugast, heavy, thick grippy rubber, sturdy oldschool V pattern. Unfortunately, on a second rainy hill ride I punctured both. Rear, a (glass?) cut, front impaled by long thin rock shard. God I hate rain. Thinking in the past, only thing that could put a hole in an Arenberg for me was rain. Otherwise usable even on horrible sharp crushed rock gravel. I should get a pair again while they still last, although these had high rr for me as well.

What else is fast outhere? Vittoria 1.0, but not the most puncture resistant. Specialized might be fast, but never tried because of too many peeling/short life reports.
Vittoria 2.0 are slow, Conti Ltd too expensive. Maybe just go for Controls. Slow but at least more rubber and long life, less fear of crashes etc. If I could choose between 2000 slow km and fast 1000 + puncture or worst, crash - I think I should take the reliable 2k.

[ninjabrewer]

I've never had the OP subject tire, but I have been riding Veloflex tires for a while now, both clincher and Tubs. The tubs ride fantastic, but they keep blowing out. First one (Arenberg), POW, repaired by that place in FL, (name escapes me at the moment), less than 100 mi later, POW. Next one (The model that replaced Arenberg) I had on the back, has maybe 500mi, had a slow leak, Orange seal fixed it. The one day, POW. Had them inflated to around 90-95 psi. Ive got one more tub that I will mount next week. I'have ordered a pair of clinchers from them for my clincher wheelset. I like ride tubbies, but I don't really want to keep having tires than only last a few 100 miles. I still have both and looking to replace the tube if I can, they both have sealant in them and not sure why they blew like they did. All 3 times that has happened I didn't see anything on the road. The clinchers I have had pretty good luck with.

The sidewall blowout is more like punctures - pure luck. I've ridden Veloflex tubs as long as I remember, but have had only 2 sidewall blowouts, both after inadvertently hitting a piece of rock on the road with the side of the tub. Then again, just had a new Conti ProLTD ALX, and after 450km, sidewall explodes on a straight stretch of the road. Go figure.

I am thinking seriously about try out the tubeless versions of their tires, anyone have any experience with them?

In this same subforum, there's a long thread on them. Generally, it looks like most people who have tried them, now avoid them, including many of the local tubeless gurus (like Tobin)

Thanks

NB

[mrlobber]

Is this the same you posted about a while ago, happening at about 2 deg C?

No, and that's the point. Tyres were the same as in that autumn incident, but everything what I described above happened a couple of weeks ago. Even more interesting is that the front (ProTour Race) didn't seem to exhibit any sign of such a behaviour. I wonder if I've got a somehow "inadequate" batch of that ProTour rear tyre or something like that.

I agree that Arenbergs are virtually indestructible (by tubular standards ), and, IMO, are the best tyre Veloflex have ever made.

What else is fast outhere? Vittoria 1.0, but not the most puncture resistant. Specialized might be fast, but never tried because of too many peeling/short life reports.
Vittoria 2.0 are slow, Conti Ltd too expensive. Maybe just go for Controls. Slow but at least more rubber and long life, less fear of crashes etc. If I could choose between 2000 slow km and fast 1000 + puncture or worst, crash - I think I should take the reliable 2k.

Specialized Hell of the North tubs are really nice, but, unfortunately, come only in 28mm (I have 4k km on a pair of them).
Are you really sure Vittoria is SO slow? Given that Veloflex haven't had any good luck in official rolling resistance tests, my uneducated guess is Vittoria just cannot be slower because the Graphene 2.0 is proven to be fast both in tests as well as IRL

[Alexandrumarian]

No, and that's the point.

Ouch. I guess time to get rid of it. What about asking Veloflex (and include the date/batch). They could provide some useful response, although admiting a batch or a certain compound is poor is hard. Easier to blame it on the weather or rider.

The 2.0 is just around 1.2W slower than 1.0 per tire according to brr. They don't have many tubular reviews but from extrapolating it seems safe to assumme a latex tubular is equal to its clincher variant with butyl. From here we get the following:

1.0 tub 12.8W
2.0 tub 14W
2.0 control tub 15.4
Conti comp but 15.3
From here we could assume comp ltd is about 13W, just like a G1.0. Protour Race maybe 12? because I saw a matos velo report on the servizio claiming they were slightly faster than the Ltd.

I had the 28mm 2.0s which actually measured 27mm at best while weigthing a whopping 355grams. Kinda yuck. I had to put up to 8bars in them to get them rolling, same as in a 25mm. So they felt like hoses. But the compound was very slow to wear and had no flats or even surface cuts.

All together not much difference in rr, but since my main flat-training wheels have 5000 with latex (9W) i can easily feel the difference when i use the tubulars. The roughly 10W equals to about 1kph difference, say 32 vs 31 average. SinceI I train on a car free closed loop, all i do is stare at the power making these differences seem collosal. In the real life, in the hills, it is a wash. At my slow climbing speed, those 10W of flat resistance reduce to less than 5, which can't be felt. Downhill, again a wash as my tubular wheels are deeper. So again i think the most reasonable thing would be to use a grippy/reliable tire such as the control or competition and just avoid taking them to fast flat rides.

[mrlobber]

So again i think the most reasonable thing would be to use a grippy/reliable tire such as the control or competition and just avoid taking them to fast flat rides.

I think that's an excellent summary which resonates very well with my own experience although I've had several superfast days on smooth roads running 23mm tubs as well.

2.0 control tub 15.4
Conti comp but 15.3
From here we could assume comp ltd is about 13W, just like a G1.0. Protour Race maybe 12? because I saw a matos velo report on the servizio claiming they were slightly faster than the Ltd.

What I'm slightly surprised, though, is that the Conti Ltd still seems so slow, given the performance of the GP5000. I mean, how hard would it be for Continental to just upgrade the compound to the GP5000 one (it's well known that "Black Chilli compound" in Conti terms means both very fast as well as very slow tyres).

[Alexandrumarian]

I think that's an excellent summary which resonates very well with my own experience although I've had several superfast days on smooth roads running 23mm tubs as well.

Fitness level is important too. Say we have a fast group ride where the lead pulls in the 250-300w range. For a very fit guy (not to mention a pro) a 15-20w difference makes the ride either "tough" or "solid". But for someone utterly average such as myself it is the difference between surviving there and getting dropped. I really feel the boost given by 5k latex, however over wet patches they can be sketchy, same as I felt with Michelin power Comps, another super low rr tire.

Could be one reason we don't get a new and improved competition, they don't want the pros spilling around at the first sign of rain. Maybe the tt tub has a faster compound but I'm not willing to spend money and glue time on those just to see them shredded after just one ride on our crappy hill roads.

[Nickldn]

The 2.0 is just around 1.2W slower than 1.0 per tire according to brr.

I had the 28mm 2.0s which actually measured 27mm at best while weigthing a whopping 355grams. Kinda yuck. I had to put up to 8bars in them to get them rolling, same as in a 25mm. So they felt like hoses. But the compound was very slow to wear and had no flats or even surface cuts.

I switched from G+ 1.0 to 2.0 (25mm tubs) on the back last year. Haven't noticed a difference in RR, but the tread is tougher on the 2.0, no cuts or holes, while the 1.0 had loads.

I run about 6.5-7 bar on the back, depending on road surface. Feels fine to me, though anything over 7 bar is noticeably harsher.

[bilwit]

What else is fast outhere? Vittoria 1.0, but not the most puncture resistant. Specialized might be fast, but never tried because of too many peeling/short life reports.
Vittoria 2.0 are slow, Conti Ltd too expensive. Maybe just go for Controls. Slow but at least more rubber and long life, less fear of crashes etc. If I could choose between 2000 slow km and fast 1000 + puncture or worst, crash - I think I should take the reliable 2k.

Pirelli... kind of heavy and not really tested though

Coincidentally I stocked up on a couple sets of Arenberg and Roubaix just before they stopped making them