Veloflex enters the tubeless market

[micky]

I have no experience at all with Veloflex - just happy not dealing with punctures on my GP5K TL - are Veloflex considered puncture proof(ish)?

Used for years (still do) their clinchers and tubs.
They dont have much material (thus their low weight) so they are more prone to puncture, especially when it's slightly wet for some reason imho.
But can't help and adore their performance and the fancy feeling of a very tiny brand (been at their factory more than once).

[SamD]

Furthermore, the short-lived Veloflex Service Course tubular had a rather low RR, not far from the best tubeless tires and I wonder if the new line does not have the very same tire thread compound ...

Have you seen some data to support this? Would be very promising if you have. I'm sure Service Course/Servizio Corse have just been relabelled and the new lines are the same tyres as open tubulars/open TLR.

@Alan Yu don't worry I'm sure they have not gone to full vulcanisation - their target market would be very upset!

@ichobi Except they aren't. Every tyre apart from Turbo Cotton (and this is disputed by the BRR results) ahead of the GP5000 is a dedicated timetrial tyre. The latest breed of allround tyres from Michelin and Schwalbe are a couple of watts slower. The Veloflex Master is a massive 8W behind.

@kroem If puncture resistance is important to you the 25c Conti tubeless is 300gr and these Veloflex are 220gr. That tells you all you need to know.

BRR tests with butyl tubes while Aero-coach tested with latex tubes, that might explain the differences regarding the Turbo Cotton (and why TL tires in general often rank better at BRR, as they are compared against butyl tubed clinchers).

[aeroisnteverything]

Furthermore, the short-lived Veloflex Service Course tubular had a rather low RR, not far from the best tubeless tires and I wonder if the new line does not have the very same tire thread compound ...

Have you seen some data to support this? Would be very promising if you have. I'm sure Service Course/Servizio Corse have just been relabelled and the new lines are the same tyres as open tubulars/open TLR.

@Alan Yu don't worry I'm sure they have not gone to full vulcanisation - their target market would be very upset!

@ichobi Except they aren't. Every tyre apart from Turbo Cotton (and this is disputed by the BRR results) ahead of the GP5000 is a dedicated timetrial tyre. The latest breed of allround tyres from Michelin and Schwalbe are a couple of watts slower. The Veloflex Master is a massive 8W behind.

@kroem If puncture resistance is important to you the 25c Conti tubeless is 300gr and these Veloflex are 220gr. That tells you all you need to know.

The old Veloflex Master and Veloflex Corsas tested relatively poorly - but if you look them up, these are quite different tyres with a patterned thread. The new ones are slicks, like their Record tyre. That latter one tested extremely well by Aerocoach - up there with the best of them.

The best answer to the questions we all have would be a BRR test. Absent that, we are left to speculate:
- does the Corsa Race tyre use the same compound as the Record tyre (I think likely yes)
- How much does the extra thread thickness and puncture belt affect RR (this we really don't know)

Re puncture resistance: this is mainly a function of how strong the belt is, not weight. If you look at the results on BRR for Veloflex corsa, it had surprisingly high thread puncture resistance - better than GP4000 - despite a thinner thread. Weight doesn't really matter here: the reason why GP 5000TL weigh so much is because they have a layer of butyl inside the tyre to make it airtight. Despite the extra weight it offers no extra puncture resistance compared to the GP 5000 clincher.

[robeambro]

Is the Corsa Race a pure TT tyre or a more allround? bit annoying that they wouldn't offer such model in anything other than 25s.

[aeroisnteverything]

It looked to me like Race is an all-round race tyre while Record is the TT tyre. Evo is a race/training tyre. Agree - a 28 would be nice to see.

[AnkitS]

+1 28 race tires are a trend thats not going anywhere.

[Wingnut]

I have no experience at all with Veloflex - just happy not dealing with punctures on my GP5K TL - are Veloflex considered puncture proof(ish)?

Used for years (still do) their clinchers and tubs.
They dont have much material (thus their low weight) so they are more prone to puncture, especially when it's slightly wet for some reason imho.
But can't help and adore their performance and the fancy feeling of a very tiny brand (been at their factory more than once).

Agree, I know there are probably better rated tires but I love the product...Vittoria lost me when they moved to Asia.

[petromyzon]

Re puncture resistance: this is mainly a function of how strong the belt is, not weight. If you look at the results on BRR for Veloflex corsa, it had surprisingly high thread puncture resistance - better than GP4000 - despite a thinner thread. Weight doesn't really matter here: the reason why GP 5000TL weigh so much is because they have a layer of butyl inside the tyre to make it airtight. Despite the extra weight it offers no extra puncture resistance compared to the GP 5000 clincher.

I still think real world puncture resistance is a lot to do with how much rubber is on the tyre, particularly on the shoulders.

@SamD I suppose latex and butyl could interact differently with the inside of the tyre, but yes, leaving aside tubeless, Jarno had TC 0.1 W slower than GP5000, whereas the Aerocoach tests had TC a little bit faster.

[Etienne]

The best answer to the questions we all have would be a BRR test. Absent that, we are left to speculate:
- does the Corsa Race tyre use the same compound as the Record tyre (I think likely yes)
- How much does the extra thread thickness and puncture belt affect RR (this we really don't know)

There was a BRR test performed on roller by A.Lorenzini (Cycles & Forme, in french unfortunately ... not for me of course ) showing that the 2019 "Service Course / Servizio Corsa" short-lived thread allowed a BRR that was between the Corsa Speed and the Conti ProLtd tubulars, and equivalent to a GP5000 with a Panaracer R'air tube ... not bad at all !!

So I guess, and only time will tell, that the new thread compound and texture will allow something interesting ...

Veloflex did an effort to update their tires line and for tubulars users, I think it's great news ... and for clinchers and tubeless users, something new that cannot hurt

[xav]

Re puncture resistance: this is mainly a function of how strong the belt is, not weight. If you look at the results on BRR for Veloflex corsa, it had surprisingly high thread puncture resistance - better than GP4000 - despite a thinner thread. Weight doesn't really matter here: the reason why GP 5000TL weigh so much is because they have a layer of butyl inside the tyre to make it airtight. Despite the extra weight it offers no extra puncture resistance compared to the GP 5000 clincher.

I still think real world puncture resistance is a lot to do with how much rubber is on the tyre, particularly on the shoulders.

@SamD I suppose latex and butyl could interact differently with the inside of the tyre, but yes, leaving aside tubeless, Jarno had TC 0.1 W slower than GP5000, whereas the Aerocoach tests had TC a little bit faster.

We did the aero data on the TC vs GP5000 too and in the real world because the GP5000 is more aerodynamic they're basically identical speed overall. Other factors to consider apart from just Crr (at AeroCoach we don't test for puncture protection which is why the Brr test are really helpful), but we can add aero into the mix which is hopefully useful for people too. We do test with latex tubes which skews things a bit vs butyl testing, but we do it to level the playing field so as to speak.

Have ordered some of the new VF in 25mm so will get data on that soon for people, I'm interested to see how they'll do as well!

[aeroisnteverything]

We did the aero data on the TC vs GP5000 too and in the real world because the GP5000 is more aerodynamic they're basically identical speed overall. Other factors to consider apart from just Crr (at AeroCoach we don't test for puncture protection which is why the Brr test are really helpful), but we can add aero into the mix which is hopefully useful for people too. We do test with latex tubes which skews things a bit vs butyl testing, but we do it to level the playing field so as to speak.

Have ordered some of the new VF in 25mm so will get data on that soon for people, I'm interested to see how they'll do as well!

Awesome - looking forward to the results. Did you order the tubeless Race?

[xav]

Awesome - looking forward to the results. Did you order the tubeless Race?

Both the Corsa Evo TLR (gum sidewall) and also Corsa Race TLR (gum sidewall), both in 25mm. I'm assuming the Crr will be the same between the gum and black

[mpulsiv]

Double post with intermittent connection.

[mpulsiv]

My fear is its like Rene Herse; some love them...others are full of sidewalls leaking etc
As I said - hope wrong
Sometimes the small guys genuinely are better as quicker and more nimble; but often the big boys R&D wins out
Choice is good though

Hence they released endurance casing with marginally thicker sidewalls to prevent the leaks. Jan stated that ride quality isn’t compromised.
On this note, Veloflex entered tubeless space 4 years behind competition. Likely, they have gone through vigorous testing, like Campagnolo, who released disc 3 years after Shimano and SRAM. Italians take their time for a reason

[petromyzon]

Both the Corsa Evo TLR (gum sidewall) and also Corsa Race TLR (gum sidewall), both in 25mm. I'm assuming the Crr will be the same between the gum and black

Thank you for your hard work and for making the data available. I'm sure making tyres is a trade-off and we have to be aware of what we are losing when we optimise for CRR but in general publically available data has probably resulted in much faster products over the past couple of years.

Historically I think manufacturers of non-vulcanised tyres have used one or a few tread strips glued on to a range of casings and so I will be very interested in any comments you can make regarding the construction of these two products. If they are otherwise identical will this give us an idea of the value of having a lighter weight casing i.e. a direct experiment 320tpi vs 350tpi?

Also, the Veloflex Record clinchers I have do not appear to use their latest compound as introduced last year on the 350tpi tubs. I wonder if the new edition of this tyre will be able to challenge Corsa Speeds for the overall crown?