Winspace Hyper

[RadB]

Probably, but appreciate any pointers to a 23mm 5000TL. Oh wait...

[C36]

Hunt has a blog post where they test the difference in stiffness between a steel and a carbon spoke, they only measured a 6% difference which isn’t a lot.

Anyway I get it now why people buy these

Hunt went for weight reduction and improved the low stiffness of their SS spoked wheels to bring them to the level competition was. The wheels you mentioned from probably from the Bike Rumor article (where they mentioned the 6%) were in the low mid 40N/mm versus 50 for the hyper.

To answer your initial question on the hype. Hambini who ran wind tunnel test* put them quite ahead of many many wheels under “real
World condition” (non steady state flow). His tests polarised part of Internet (part of his personality, part of ignorance of physics by some and lack of supporting evidence the tests really took place) and then stopped publishing

[robbosmans]

Lol those graphs are hideous, where is the error margin? There are like 30 wheels within 4 watts.

[C36]

Lol those graphs are hideous, where is the error margin? There are like 30 wheels within 4 watts.

I have no horses in this race but did you bother reading all the explanations he published? I am very well aware about the scepticism on some key points but he explained what you complain about. On top of my head he presented the middle fo the bar and there is an accuracy of 2.5%. Now accuracy is not really what we care (the absolute number is irrelevant), we care about repeatability (that would ensure the difference between each wheel is “real”) here he remained more vague and mentioned (on top of my head) around low single digit W between subsequent runs.

As a side note, error bars are almost never included on any chart published…

[SixThirteen]

I guess the real question folks need to answer for themselves is why would you buy new wheels if you already have some, or which wheels to buy if you have none, and what you are looking for.

I already had some 60mm wheels and while in a straight line they are fairly speedy and make a nice noise, they are a: tricky in side winds and b: not very light

So when I was looking for some all-round wheels that can climb, pretty quick on the flat, nice and stiff, and good value, the Hypers hit that sweet spot for me. In the ~9 months I've had them I've gotten PRs on all the climbs where I live, used them in the mountains, crit races, and circuit races.

I have approval for a new bike, and while I'd like a Canyon Aeroad CFR (though I've more chance of getting hit by lightning than them being available anytme soon), it comes with 62mm wheels which will be too deep for me for everyday riding. For that I'll look to get some more eg Hypers or Feders in ~50mm

Six13

[JOwenSmith]

i've reached out to Hyper, and I appologize if its in this thread somewhere, but has anyone been able to order a 50mm/65mm combination set?

[integration]

i've reached out to Hyper, and I appologize if its in this thread somewhere, but has anyone been able to order a 50mm/65mm combination set?

I tried to, they only sell by the pair in the same depth. Maybe they will reconsider in the future

[Ronin416]

i've reached out to Hyper, and I appologize if its in this thread somewhere, but has anyone been able to order a 50mm/65mm combination set?

I tried to, they only sell by the pair in the same depth. Maybe they will reconsider in the future

At their prices you could get both. Lol


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[SixThirteen]

i've reached out to Hyper, and I appologize if its in this thread somewhere, but has anyone been able to order a 50mm/65mm combination set?

I tried to, they only sell by the pair in the same depth. Maybe they will reconsider in the future

At their prices you could get both. Lol

According to Peak Torque, airflow on the rear wheel is so messy you may as well have a shallow rim, so you could sell aero-optimised reverse-mullet wheelset ie 65 front and 50 rear

[Ronin416]

i've reached out to Hyper, and I appologize if its in this thread somewhere, but has anyone been able to order a 50mm/65mm combination set?

I tried to, they only sell by the pair in the same depth. Maybe they will reconsider in the future

At their prices you could get both. Lol

According to Peak Torque, airflow on the rear wheel is so messy you may as well have a shallow rim, so you could sell aero-optimised reverse-mullet wheelset ie 65 front and 50 rear

i've reached out to Hyper, and I appologize if its in this thread somewhere, but has anyone been able to order a 50mm/65mm combination set?

I tried to, they only sell by the pair in the same depth. Maybe they will reconsider in the future

At their prices you could get both. Lol


A lot of truth to that statement. I’ve actually send guys run that actual setup with people scratching their heads.

Roval and ENVE has taken a similar perspective but in regards to width of rather than depth upfront. With wider front rims that fair well in crosswinds in terms of handling and probably performance and using a narrower rear wheels.

[tritiltheend]

Lol those graphs are hideous, where is the error margin? There are like 30 wheels within 4 watts.

I have no horses in this race but did you bother reading all the explanations he published? I am very well aware about the scepticism on some key points but he explained what you complain about. On top of my head he presented the middle fo the bar and there is an accuracy of 2.5%. Now accuracy is not really what we care (the absolute number is irrelevant), we care about repeatability (that would ensure the difference between each wheel is “real”) here he remained more vague and mentioned (on top of my head) around low single digit W between subsequent runs.

A couple of years ago I followed a very long thread on a well known tri forum about this wheel test. I approached it without any skin in the game, but it was my observation that the individuals that expressed skepticism about his tests were the ones asking reasonable data-based questions and Hambini was the one continually deflecting and evading, and ultimately resorting to ad hominem attacks. I have to say that it was very telling for me when Hambini presented a cease and desist letter that was quite obviously faked; the company that supposedly had sent it denied they had anything to do with it, it had their company name wrong, there were typos, the name of the sending lawyer was redacted, etc. So all I can say is that I hope folks will use a reasonable degree of skepticism as to the validity of these test results.

[Ronin416]

Lol those graphs are hideous, where is the error margin? There are like 30 wheels within 4 watts.

I have no horses in this race but did you bother reading all the explanations he published? I am very well aware about the scepticism on some key points but he explained what you complain about. On top of my head he presented the middle fo the bar and there is an accuracy of 2.5%. Now accuracy is not really what we care (the absolute number is irrelevant), we care about repeatability (that would ensure the difference between each wheel is “real”) here he remained more vague and mentioned (on top of my head) around low single digit W between subsequent runs.

A couple of years ago I followed a very long thread on a well known tri forum about this wheel test. I approached it without any skin in the game, but it was my observation that the individuals that expressed skepticism about his tests were the ones asking reasonable data-based questions and Hambini was the one continually deflecting and evading, and ultimately resorting to ad hominem attacks. I have to say that it was very telling for me when Hambini presented a cease and desist letter that was quite obviously faked; the company that supposedly had sent it denied they had anything to do with it, it had their company name wrong, there were typos, the name of the sending lawyer was redacted, etc. So all I can say is that I hope folks will use a reasonable degree of skepticism as to the validity of these test results.

I like that that comment, “use your own degree of skepticism” or better yet. Come up with your own markers for performance with all the tests, philosophies and trending of designs.

Is Winspace fast? Who really knows, but same goes for the others, unless we’ve seen some decent non bias testing such as Tour Mag’s frame tests.

I can say they “feel” fast and the carbon spokes results in a stiff wheel. But that’s my butt dyno and if my is at ease because of it and I’ve done what I can do to make the setup fast as tangibly possible, 105% rule, latex tubes. That works for me. I’ll give up a little cross winds handling for narrower profile high speed benefits.

We’ll see how their next model set of wheels fair.


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[C36]

A couple of years ago I followed a very long thread on a well known tri forum about this wheel test. I approached it without any skin in the game, but it was my observation that the individuals that expressed skepticism about his tests were the ones asking reasonable data-based questions and Hambini was the one continually deflecting and evading, and ultimately resorting to ad hominem attacks. I have to say that it was very telling for me when Hambini presented a cease and desist letter that was quite obviously faked; the company that supposedly had sent it denied they had anything to do with it, it had their company name wrong, there were typos, the name of the sending lawyer was redacted, etc. So all I can say is that I hope folks will use a reasonable degree of skepticism as to the validity of these test results.

I followed too all the posts and also have mixed feelings. The theory of his work is totally scientifically correct and some graphs can’t have been made up (some saying no wind tunnel had ever been used). Now many people intervening had no solid scientific background to understand it, coupled with his attitude it made the conversation not going anywhere. Now It’s possible he adjusted his protocol over time without willing to admit it.

For the side note, Testing in turbulent air has been attempted (to simulate) for more than 10 years by at least two brands I know of (but never used in their marketing data) by starting at very high yaw angles and gradually go back to zero (to see how flow reattach) rather than from zero to large angle that artificially extend laminar flow and drop apparent drag.

[robbosmans]

It’s just that his results are inconclusive, only a 5w difference. Let’s say the test was incredibly accurate and we assume a 2w error margin then almost all wheels tested the same.

[CarlosTheJackal]

It’s just that his results are inconclusive, only a 5w difference. Let’s say the test was incredibly accurate and we assume a 2w error margin then almost all wheels tested the same.

I don't think you can do that when the speeed gets higher. On his latest test results

https://www.hambini.com/bicycle-wheel-p ... ta-50km-h/

He has added a comment about the errors. With an example about significant figures.

The clear thing from the results is a link between deeper wheels and reduced drag. I did buy Winspace Hypers after his review and I do not regret it. They are a fast wheel.