Winspace Hyper

[Neocat]

To all folks out there with tha strange stains, I have them too, It did not bothered so much, they are visible only on certain angles. I have the 50 mm rim, I'm convinced that all rims with this buterfly layer have them. Most likely it's the resin

Hi Dacian, sorry I beg to differ. On my 38 rims the stains are visible on all angles in all lighting conditions unless truly dark. See my attached pictures before to see how bad it is visually. Which led me to believe the wheels are not created equal or at least these latest batch aren't. Of course I'm just speculating. I wonder why Joe is keeping quiet on this?

[C36]

I wonder why Joe is keeping quiet on this?

As stated previously, they are in the Shanghai bike trade show (so busy to answer in person here I guess)


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

[dacian]

Pretty disappointed. Not sure I got a defective wheel but when installing my clincher tire on rear wheel and using plastic tire lever, I heard an odd noise, like crunching. I pulled the lever out and noticed the carbon fiber delaminated where the lever was. The tires I was putting on were a bit difficult, but not more than others I've dealt with. The area is small but wondering if it will spread to the brake track area.



Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

You did nothing wrong, the exact issue It happened to me at the rear wheel too, although in a smaller extent. My wheels were equipped by my local shop, a high class proffessional, former pro racer. He really does know how to deal carbon rims. I also had 4 sets of carbon wheels so far, different brands, I personally changed tires several times, using silicone-plastic levers sometimes, but this NEVER happened to me before. It's a bit absurd to state that you cannot use levers on carbon wheels, as some folks claimed on the forum

[dacian]

Most likely it has somenthing to do with the way that the fillaments are layered over the rim edge, if you analise any other carbon rim, disc or rim brake, it's obvious that the rim edge and rim base structure is build diferently from the aero part of the wheel

[dacian]

To all folks out there with tha strange stains, I have them too, It did not bothered so much, they are visible only on certain angles. I have the 50 mm rim, I'm convinced that all rims with this buterfly layer have them. Most likely it's the resin

Hi Dacian, sorry I beg to differ. On my 38 rims the stains are visible on all angles in all lighting conditions unless truly dark. See my attached pictures before to see how bad it is visually. Which led me to believe the wheels are not created equal or at least these latest batch aren't. Of course I'm just speculating. I wonder why Joe is keeping quiet on this?

Just for the sake of polemic , checkout the picture, you can see the stains easelly, they are visible MOST of the time and rarely not visible

[dacian]

Pretty disappointed. Not sure I got a defective wheel but when installing my clincher tire on rear wheel and using plastic tire lever, I heard an odd noise, like crunching. I pulled the lever out and noticed the carbon fiber delaminated where the lever was. The tires I was putting on were a bit difficult, but not more than others I've dealt with. The area is small but wondering if it will spread to the brake track area.



Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Never pry on a carbon wheel with the leveler when installing the tire!

, it's the first time I hear this... I ride carbon wheels (all carbon, not composite/AL) from 5 years now, I raced and also have many friends bike proffessionals, who sometimes use levers to install tires on carbon rims (especially the tubeless tires). I personally very often use levers and never had an issue with carbon rims.

[dacian]

sorry for the duplicate

[Neocat]

Just for the sake of polemic , checkout the picture, you can see the stains easelly, they are visible MOST of the time and rarely not visible

Ah yes, mine look like that. My point being they're quite noticeable without trying hard to spot them. Again it depends on the tolerance of people. I can't see them whilst riding that's for sure To each his or her own

@C36
Probably so, thanks.

[RDY]

Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?

Just got my Hyper 38 rims. Out of the box I noticed rusty-coloured bleed speckled the carbon weaves, a lot more on the rear wheel. Up close it looks plain fugly to me. I'm surprised no one mentioned this before.3B5F60FB-265F-4B69-9EEF-83A1582AE327.jpeg0DCBC5C7-9065-40CA-AA3A-D12066F541A4.jpegB5B10EAA-A619-42D7-A4B2-7A737187D537.jpeg
Winspace dismisses this as their 'secret sauce' which makes the resins highly temperature resistant. I wonder if this only applies to rim wheels because the disc version would be spared of such requirement. Can someone confirm? 6F5A89F5-C25D-4121-B3F5-0E1836D30161.jpeg Also I can confirm the rear carbon spokes on the drive side touch each other, I can't slip a piece of paper in between. I hope this won't creak down the road. While not going to win on looks, all else good so far.

I'd be very concerned about this. Never seen carbon wheels do this. Filament wound or ortherwise.

Either the resin was contaminated and is going bad, or didn't fully cure / wasn't properly baked and hasn't formed an impermeable shield to ingress of damp, oil, dirt or other contaminants. Or they got overheated when baked. Something certainly not right there.

I have a pair of FW wheels. They're completely naked (no clearcoat even) ... Oil or anything else just wipes straight off them with a bit of cleaner and a cloth - nothing permeates.

[RDY]

Pretty disappointed. Not sure I got a defective wheel but when installing my clincher tire on rear wheel and using plastic tire lever, I heard an odd noise, like crunching. I pulled the lever out and noticed the carbon fiber delaminated where the lever was. The tires I was putting on were a bit difficult, but not more than others I've dealt with. The area is small but wondering if it will spread to the brake track area.



Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

You did nothing wrong, the exact issue It happened to me at the rear wheel too, although in a smaller extent. My wheels were equipped by my local shop, a high class proffessional, former pro racer. He really does know how to deal carbon rims. I also had 4 sets of carbon wheels so far, different brands, I personally changed tires several times, using silicone-plastic levers sometimes, but this NEVER happened to me before. It's a bit absurd to state that you cannot use levers on carbon wheels, as some folks claimed on the forum

These should be replaced. Dangerous to ride like that, and there's absolutely no way plastic levers should damage a carbon rim.

[HenryH]

Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?

Just got my Hyper 38 rims. Out of the box I noticed rusty-coloured bleed speckled the carbon weaves, a lot more on the rear wheel. Up close it looks plain fugly to me. I'm surprised no one mentioned this before.3B5F60FB-265F-4B69-9EEF-83A1582AE327.jpeg0DCBC5C7-9065-40CA-AA3A-D12066F541A4.jpegB5B10EAA-A619-42D7-A4B2-7A737187D537.jpeg
Winspace dismisses this as their 'secret sauce' which makes the resins highly temperature resistant. I wonder if this only applies to rim wheels because the disc version would be spared of such requirement. Can someone confirm? 6F5A89F5-C25D-4121-B3F5-0E1836D30161.jpeg Also I can confirm the rear carbon spokes on the drive side touch each other, I can't slip a piece of paper in between. I hope this won't creak down the road. While not going to win on looks, all else good so far.

I'd be very concerned about this. Never seen carbon wheels do this. Filament wound or ortherwise.

Either the resin was contaminated and is going bad, or didn't fully cure / wasn't properly baked and hasn't formed an impermeable shield to ingress of damp, oil, dirt or other contaminants. Or they got overheated when baked. Something certainly not right there.

I have a pair of FW wheels. They're completely naked (no clearcoat even) ... Oil or anything else just wipes straight off them with a bit of cleaner and a cloth - nothing permeates.

Would this be true for all types of resin?

[HenryH]

I cannot comment on if a plastic lever "should" or not damage a carbon wheel, but there is enough stories around with people having experienced similar things like this to be extremely careful with levers.

Generally speaking quite annoying how the cycling industry refuses to come with clear guidance. Levers or no levers? At least if they say no levers buyers can then evaluate if it is worth it buying them. If they say levers are OK then they got to stand by their product when things like this happen. Similar thing with for example indoor trainers and frames. So many brands just refuse to make it clear if any damage while riding on an indoor trainer would be covered by warrenty or not.

[happydogww]

I believe the tyre lever damaging rims thing is usually misuse by the installer. Tyres can seem super tight if the bead is not properly seated in the deepest central section and progressively pulled around the rim before getting the last section in. Most if not all tyre rim combos should be able to be pushed on with bare thumbs with proper technique, and levers if used need some skill and knowledge as well.

[C36]

Most if not all tyre rim combos should be able to be pushed on with bare thumbs with proper technique, and levers if used need some skill and knowledge as well.

Would disagree. When you see the complete total absence of consistency on tire bed diameter (and the variations on the rims too...) some combinations are difficult even with tire levers.

Now, on this case, the damage appears very localised, not really matching the contact area a tire lever has, by the look of the damage it “could” show the lever tilted and then concentrate stress.


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

[HenryH]

I should be careful saying anything as I willl soon try to fit some 5000 TL on my Hypers´, but I have no intention of using levers. I might need some help with some heat though - either from the sun, hairdrier or whatever. More worried if I have to deal with a puncture in the middle of nowhere on a cold day.

As for that crack I think it is hard, if not impossible, to say much about what happened. I got some plastic levers that are not very wide. Get them slightly tilted to one side and I am sure they could dig into quite a few rims if you are not careful (or if you are just unlucky).

It would have been interesting to see, if only I had enough money to waste on such a project, if one was able to replicate those markings with a lever. Might be worth testing on that rim if that ends up being unusable? Might even strengthen your case towards Winspace if you are not able to replicate it on other parts of the rime - basically proving that the rim had a weak spot it probably shouldn´t have had.