Winspace Hyper

[ullmanz]

so how exactly are you supposed to change tires on a carbon wheel if you can't use the levers?

[jzinckgra]

so how exactly are you supposed to change tires on a carbon wheel if you can't use the levers?

I'm not sure, but I have pretty strong hands and needed the lever then the damage occurred. I did hear back from Winspace. They offered to send a rim-only replacement and have local wheelbuilder rebuild the wheel and they would reimburse me. Unfortunately, the only wheel builder does not have the proper tension meters to build a carbon fiber spoked rim, so I asked Winspace to please send a complete wheel without the rim tape and hub body.

[Mcdeez]

so how exactly are you supposed to change tires on a carbon wheel if you can't use the levers?

It depends how much pressure you put, ive seen a hollowgram wheel crack using levelers

[ChinaCycling]

Holy poop! I went to Shanghai bike show, then came back and had a few days vacation (The bike show was during the Mayday holidays, so had my holiday after the holiday. )

Looks like there's lots to address in this thread. As always, love your guys feedback, and we're here to answer any questions. (Although always email us if you're having a specific issue! This thread is just to answer a question where people will see the answer going forward... Lets get going!

I have a set of DTSwiss ARC 1400s that came with my bike. From the first 100km I had creaking when out of the saddle and climbing up steep gradients. Anything above 400W in a high gear and therefore high torque caused it. 400-500W or more on flat roads in a low gear where the torque is much lower there was no creaking. Tracked it down to spoke rub, which I sorted with a bit of chain lube at the cross over spot. No big deal, easily fixed and a very common issue. Over 4000km later the wheels are still quite and run great.

My new Hyper 38 wheels after 500km still run perfectly silent and have so far been issue free. I know spoke rub could happen but it's an easy fix. Nothing to worry about.

A friend of mine has the new Roval Rapide CLX wheels on his Tarmac SL6 disc and after 1000km or so his wheels creak like crazy and he has constant rotor rub issues too. No wheel manufacturer is perfect and lots of small issues exist on all bikes.

I have recommended the Hyper wheels to many friends already, I am very happy with them and think they are agreat product at a great price.

The spoke rub issue according to what I see in the company inboxes on the HYPERs is a small percentage. Of course, maybe there are people out there with it who aren't reporting it so the number could be higher. It doesnt seem to be affected by rider weight or power. Peak Torque is a big guy and his wheels are silent. Cam Nicholls porbbaly puts out less power and his creak. They all have the same spoke tension. The lads are still investigating. Anyone having this issue who can't stand it, get in touch with us. The early batches of HYPER had some freehubs where occassionally only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage. This would also cause a clicking/creaking sound that sounded very similar to the spoke sound - despite being totally different causes. This issue is now resolved. They test all new products for over 10,000km on the road as well as much more on the testing rigs before it goes on market; but it's just a numbers game. If its an issue affecting a small % sometimes a customer will see it before we do. If we have such an issue, we'll usually pay for the customer to post the affected wheel back so we can investigate. Also, what you see on YouTube is what you get. There are no special wheels for YouTubers or anything. Thus even Cam's wheels creak.

Also I can confirm the rear carbon spokes on the drive side touch each other, I can't slip a piece of paper in between. I hope this won't creak down the road. While not going to win on looks, all else good so far.

Cam Nicholls just uploaded a video on YouTube. Same issue. Spokes touching each other which quite probably have lead to creaking.

Thanks for the heads up. Look forward on updates from Nicholls regarding this. Electrical tapes now eh? Thanks Voss27 for the tip

I can understand that cosmetics could be a non-issue for some but still good to share so that potential buyer can make informed decision and at the same time Winspace to take note and improve their product. My wheels look nothing like the ones shown on their website:

EFE54BAD-E619-4950-91D0-321ED0B94D6E.jpeg
@Usernamealex Well, a good word by Hambini did helped some. Make no mistake these are indeed fast wheels.

This is a valid point - I will add a disclaimer to the website. The HYPER photos were taken and photoshopped by me. There was no editing out of the resin colour, it's just different lighting situations it shows up differently. In the studio I'm using big softboxes, and the softlight means there's no yellow light. It's usually most visible in direct, harsh sunlight, or certain types of LED lighting. Will add this info to the website. As for people talking about why it seems to come and go... some HYPERs' paint job is done in a different factory. (All rims are made in the same factory - that factory just doesn't have the capacity for applying decals / paint) and there is a slight difference in the finish between factories. Some come out slightly blacker (with less resin visible) and some come out more 'carbon' or 'raw' and the resin is more visible. This issue has also been rectified and going forward there will be a more uniform appearance to the wheels. This was a learning process in going from building tens of these to thousdands of these.

Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?

There you go, terrible looking ain't it? Seems only 38's rim and disc are affected thus far.

Joe of Winspace is here. @ChinaCycling perhaps you can shed some light?

See above.

Final comments: In this thread (and in various places around the interwebs) there are loads of guys enjoying their HYPERs trouble-free. The vast majority of people however will see this thread; buy the wheels, then go and enjoy them with never coming back here. However, those that have issues come back here to share (nothing wrong with that!) so it ends up looking worse than it is. Winspace / Lún stand by all their products and if anyone has ANY issue; just get in touch with us. The demand for HYPERs has been great, but it's definately been a challenge for the production department. Since my joining the company I've told the production department categorically; if it's not perfect - it doesn't go out the door. We'll continue to strive for perfection, but even with the strictest of QC measures, there will always be a small percentage of issues that make it through the cracks. In my opinion... the real sign of a good brand isn't one with a product with zero issues, it's a brand that knows how to deal with the issues when the arise.

[ChinaCycling]

My 38 rim arrived today, took 11 days from despatch to my door.

First ride today. PR on a local climb, 2nd best time on another and it would have been a better time except a bus was picking up passengers. Anecdata is best kind of data.

I've got the pads set pretty close, closer than I could with my Flo wheels, and no rub at all. Braking was fine in the dry, and didn't get that jet engine noise some rims/pads give. No squeeling either.

Spokes aren't rubbing, wheels are true.

So far so good!

Six13

Enjoy your wheels!

[Neocat]

This is a valid point - I will add a disclaimer to the website. The HYPER photos were taken and photoshopped by me. There was no editing out of the resin colour, it's just different lighting situations it shows up differently. In the studio I'm using big softboxes, and the softlight means there's no yellow light. It's usually most visible in direct, harsh sunlight, or certain types of LED lighting. Will add this info to the website. As for people talking about why it seems to come and go... some HYPERs' paint job is done in a different factory. (All rims are made in the same factory - that factory just doesn't have the capacity for applying decals / paint) and there is a slight difference in the finish between factories. Some come out slightly blacker (with less resin visible) and some come out more 'carbon' or 'raw' and the resin is more visible. This issue has also been rectified and going forward there will be a more uniform appearance to the wheels. This was a learning process in going from building tens of these to thousdands of these.

Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?

There you go, terrible looking ain't it? Seems only 38's rim and disc are affected thus far.

Joe of Winspace is here. @ChinaCycling perhaps you can shed some light?

Thanks Joe for coming back on this. Am I to understand the stain issue has now been rectified? What of the customers who got the uglier batch of Hypers and unhappy with them?

[ChinaCycling]

This is a valid point - I will add a disclaimer to the website. The HYPER photos were taken and photoshopped by me. There was no editing out of the resin colour, it's just different lighting situations it shows up differently. In the studio I'm using big softboxes, and the softlight means there's no yellow light. It's usually most visible in direct, harsh sunlight, or certain types of LED lighting. Will add this info to the website. As for people talking about why it seems to come and go... some HYPERs' paint job is done in a different factory. (All rims are made in the same factory - that factory just doesn't have the capacity for applying decals / paint) and there is a slight difference in the finish between factories. Some come out slightly blacker (with less resin visible) and some come out more 'carbon' or 'raw' and the resin is more visible. This issue has also been rectified and going forward there will be a more uniform appearance to the wheels. This was a learning process in going from building tens of these to thousdands of these.

Been lurking for a while, looking for some new wheels. I ordered some disc 38 hypers which arrived this week. The rims look terrible, with brown patches all over the wheel, particular the rears.

Winspace have sent me the same copy and pasted excuse, high temperature resin, special sauce, high brake surface temperature (despite being disc rims), nothing wrong with the wheels etc.

To some this may not matter, but none of the wheels look like this on the website or the ones sent out to test. To me it suggests an unstable production process - can anyone confirm whether these sort of patches indicate more than a cosmetic issue?

There you go, terrible looking ain't it? Seems only 38's rim and disc are affected thus far.

Joe of Winspace is here. @ChinaCycling perhaps you can shed some light?

Thanks Joe for coming back on this. Am I to understand the stain issue has now been rectified? What of the customers who got the uglier batch of Hypers and unhappy with them?

Errr...I should clarify; it's not really "rectified". The brown colour is still there. The only thing that has changed is that they're now all equally visible, as opposed to before when some would be less visible. ie: going forward everyone's wheels should have equal amounts of brown. Although I should clarify even further that due to the nature of composite materials, no two rims will be exactly identical...It's like ordering a wooden table and trying to specify what part of the wood 'grain' you get on your particular table. As with all our products, if the customer isn't fully satisfied with the product when they receive it, they can contact us for details on how to return the product for a refund. However, I wouldn't recommend trying to get a replacement, as with the wooden table analogy it's impossible for us to provide the exact 'pattern' wanted and there's a good chance you'll end up with something the same.

The ball was dropped here by the marketing department (me) - users should be made more aware of the colouring when ordering. Although, again, this is never something that was tried to be covered up, plenty of photos show it on Instagram, etc, etc。 Will update the website with this info some time this week.

[ullmanz]

@ChinaCycling could you also shine some light on how we should correctly put the wheels onto the tire and how we should replace an inner tube? Hyper offered to send a new rim, does that mean that using levers is okay and that in this case it was just a production error?

[Neocat]

Errr...I should clarify; it's not really "rectified". The brown colour is still there. The only thing that has changed is that they're now all equally visible, as opposed to before when some would be less visible. ie: going forward everyone's wheels should have equal amounts of brown. Although I should clarify even further that due to the nature of composite materials, no two rims will be exactly identical...It's like ordering a wooden table and trying to specify what part of the wood 'grain' you get on your particular table. As with all our products, if the customer isn't fully satisfied with the product when they receive it, they can contact us for details on how to return the product for a refund. However, I wouldn't recommend trying to get a replacement, as with the wooden table analogy it's impossible for us to provide the exact 'pattern' wanted and there's a good chance you'll end up with something the same.

The ball was dropped here by the marketing department (me) - users should be made more aware of the colouring when ordering. Although, again, this is never something that was tried to be covered up, plenty of photos show it on Instagram, etc, etc。 Will update the website with this info some time this week.

Fair enough. As long as Winspace is upfront about it and customers aware what they're getting should be fine. For the discerning WW audience, what exact paint process was done at the factory to hide the resin better without hiding the beautiful butterfly weave? Is it something we can do in DIY fashion after the fact?

[HenryH]

Thanks. Personally I could see the resin adding some personality/character to the rims, but customers should know.

[ChinaCycling]

@ChinaCycling could you also shine some light on how we should correctly put the wheels onto the tire and how we should replace an inner tube? Hyper offered to send a new rim, does that mean that using levers is okay and that in this case it was just a production error?

Using tire levers (plastic) on your rim is fine...but... it's about technique. If you wanted to, you could probably brake any carbon rim using a plastic tire lever. If you didn't push the whole of the bead into the "valley" of the rim, and then you put the tire lever at an angle so it's edge was digging in to the rim... yeah; you could probably brake anything.

So, I'm sure you sent them photos and they analyzed it. If they judged that it looked like it failed in a certain way that it shouldn't, they'll sort you out. If it looks like you were just using the tire lever like a baboon, they may be less eager.

But, to answer your original question:

Step 1: Don't buy GP5000TLs (haha, well, they seem to have different batches. I've had some go on easy and some be a nightmare. I'd go for Schwalbe Pro Ones over GP5000TLs personally.)
Step 2: When installing the tire, make sure you're pushing the bead into the center of the rim! Lots of people ignore this step, but it makes installation 100x easier. Push the bead into the center "valley" of the rim, as this is the area with the smallest circumference giving you more 'slack' at the end where you're trying to get the last bit on.
Step 3: If you follow step 2, you really shouldn't need tire levers. Only in some real pain in the ass cases. Schwalbe One (NOT the pro version) is a pain in the ass to install. I usually use a tire lever for the last bit. But, again - just don't take the mickey. If it's still miles and miles away from going on, don't try to lever the f**k out of it to wrestle it on. It's all about technique, not power. Will have to get our tiny office girl Ava to make a video installing the tires just to prove this point =P

[alcatraz]

Haha. Gotta love the manufacturer representative language.

[Gwcman]

Holy poop! I went to Shanghai bike show, then came back and had a few days vacation (The bike show was during the Mayday holidays, so had my holiday after the holiday. )

Looks like there's lots to address in this thread. As always, love your guys feedback, and we're here to answer any questions. (Although always email us if you're having a specific issue! This thread is just to answer a question where people will see the answer going forward... Lets get going!

The spoke rub issue according to what I see in the company inboxes on the HYPERs is a small percentage. Of course, maybe there are people out there with it who aren't reporting it so the number could be higher. It doesnt seem to be affected by rider weight or power. Peak Torque is a big guy and his wheels are silent. Cam Nicholls porbbaly puts out less power and his creak. They all have the same spoke tension. The lads are still investigating. Anyone having this issue who can't stand it, get in touch with us. The early batches of HYPER had some freehubs where occassionally only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage. This would also cause a clicking/creaking sound that sounded very similar to the spoke sound - despite being totally different causes. This issue is now resolved. They test all new products for over 10,000km on the road as well as much more on the testing rigs before it goes on market; but it's just a numbers game. If its an issue affecting a small % sometimes a customer will see it before we do. If we have such an issue, we'll usually pay for the customer to post the affected wheel back so we can investigate. Also, what you see on YouTube is what you get. There are no special wheels for YouTubers or anything. Thus even Cam's wheels creak.


Final comments: In this thread (and in various places around the interwebs) there are loads of guys enjoying their HYPERs trouble-free. The vast majority of people however will see this thread; buy the wheels, then go and enjoy them with never coming back here. However, those that have issues come back here to share (nothing wrong with that!) so it ends up looking worse than it is. Winspace / Lún stand by all their products and if anyone has ANY issue; just get in touch with us. The demand for HYPERs has been great, but it's definately been a challenge for the production department. Since my joining the company I've told the production department categorically; if it's not perfect - it doesn't go out the door. We'll continue to strive for perfection, but even with the strictest of QC measures, there will always be a small percentage of issues that make it through the cracks. In my opinion... the real sign of a good brand isn't one with a product with zero issues, it's a brand that knows how to deal with the issues when the arise.

Hey @ChinaCycling thank you for taking the time to respond throughly, much appreciated.

With regards to the clicking/creaking sound where only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage, what is your team suggesting as a fix instead of sending the wheel back and being without the wheels? Purchased my wheels in mid-Feb and have recently experienced this issue around 700kms and took McDeez's suggestion who also experienced the issue and managed to resolve it (for how long not sure) by adding a little more grease. Thoughts? Thanks.

Cheers,

[ChinaCycling]

Holy poop! I went to Shanghai bike show, then came back and had a few days vacation (The bike show was during the Mayday holidays, so had my holiday after the holiday. )

Looks like there's lots to address in this thread. As always, love your guys feedback, and we're here to answer any questions. (Although always email us if you're having a specific issue! This thread is just to answer a question where people will see the answer going forward... Lets get going!

The spoke rub issue according to what I see in the company inboxes on the HYPERs is a small percentage. Of course, maybe there are people out there with it who aren't reporting it so the number could be higher. It doesnt seem to be affected by rider weight or power. Peak Torque is a big guy and his wheels are silent. Cam Nicholls porbbaly puts out less power and his creak. They all have the same spoke tension. The lads are still investigating. Anyone having this issue who can't stand it, get in touch with us. The early batches of HYPER had some freehubs where occassionally only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage. This would also cause a clicking/creaking sound that sounded very similar to the spoke sound - despite being totally different causes. This issue is now resolved. They test all new products for over 10,000km on the road as well as much more on the testing rigs before it goes on market; but it's just a numbers game. If its an issue affecting a small % sometimes a customer will see it before we do. If we have such an issue, we'll usually pay for the customer to post the affected wheel back so we can investigate. Also, what you see on YouTube is what you get. There are no special wheels for YouTubers or anything. Thus even Cam's wheels creak.


Final comments: In this thread (and in various places around the interwebs) there are loads of guys enjoying their HYPERs trouble-free. The vast majority of people however will see this thread; buy the wheels, then go and enjoy them with never coming back here. However, those that have issues come back here to share (nothing wrong with that!) so it ends up looking worse than it is. Winspace / Lún stand by all their products and if anyone has ANY issue; just get in touch with us. The demand for HYPERs has been great, but it's definately been a challenge for the production department. Since my joining the company I've told the production department categorically; if it's not perfect - it doesn't go out the door. We'll continue to strive for perfection, but even with the strictest of QC measures, there will always be a small percentage of issues that make it through the cracks. In my opinion... the real sign of a good brand isn't one with a product with zero issues, it's a brand that knows how to deal with the issues when the arise.

Hey @ChinaCycling thank you for taking the time to respond throughly, much appreciated.

With regards to the clicking/creaking sound where only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage, what is your team suggesting as a fix instead of sending the wheel back and being without the wheels? Purchased my wheels in mid-Feb and have recently experienced this issue around 700kms and took McDeez's suggestion who also experienced the issue and managed to resolve it (for how long not sure) by adding a little more grease. Thoughts? Thanks.

Cheers,

Best to email the team, send them your serial number and they'll be able to have a better idea of the potential problem. The previous 2 out of 3 pawls working was an old problem that has since been rectified - the team can tell from your serial number if it's one of those that had the chance of having that issue. However, it seems from looking on here that a newer problem is some hubs going out the factory without enough grease. I will bring it up with the team ASAP.

[Neocat]

Holy poop! I went to Shanghai bike show, then came back and had a few days vacation (The bike show was during the Mayday holidays, so had my holiday after the holiday. )

Looks like there's lots to address in this thread. As always, love your guys feedback, and we're here to answer any questions. (Although always email us if you're having a specific issue! This thread is just to answer a question where people will see the answer going forward... Lets get going!

The spoke rub issue according to what I see in the company inboxes on the HYPERs is a small percentage. Of course, maybe there are people out there with it who aren't reporting it so the number could be higher. It doesnt seem to be affected by rider weight or power. Peak Torque is a big guy and his wheels are silent. Cam Nicholls porbbaly puts out less power and his creak. They all have the same spoke tension. The lads are still investigating. Anyone having this issue who can't stand it, get in touch with us. The early batches of HYPER had some freehubs where occassionally only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage. This would also cause a clicking/creaking sound that sounded very similar to the spoke sound - despite being totally different causes. This issue is now resolved. They test all new products for over 10,000km on the road as well as much more on the testing rigs before it goes on market; but it's just a numbers game. If its an issue affecting a small % sometimes a customer will see it before we do. If we have such an issue, we'll usually pay for the customer to post the affected wheel back so we can investigate. Also, what you see on YouTube is what you get. There are no special wheels for YouTubers or anything. Thus even Cam's wheels creak.


Final comments: In this thread (and in various places around the interwebs) there are loads of guys enjoying their HYPERs trouble-free. The vast majority of people however will see this thread; buy the wheels, then go and enjoy them with never coming back here. However, those that have issues come back here to share (nothing wrong with that!) so it ends up looking worse than it is. Winspace / Lún stand by all their products and if anyone has ANY issue; just get in touch with us. The demand for HYPERs has been great, but it's definately been a challenge for the production department. Since my joining the company I've told the production department categorically; if it's not perfect - it doesn't go out the door. We'll continue to strive for perfection, but even with the strictest of QC measures, there will always be a small percentage of issues that make it through the cracks. In my opinion... the real sign of a good brand isn't one with a product with zero issues, it's a brand that knows how to deal with the issues when the arise.

Hey @ChinaCycling thank you for taking the time to respond throughly, much appreciated.

With regards to the clicking/creaking sound where only 2 out of the group of 3 pawls would engage, what is your team suggesting as a fix instead of sending the wheel back and being without the wheels? Purchased my wheels in mid-Feb and have recently experienced this issue around 700kms and took McDeez's suggestion who also experienced the issue and managed to resolve it (for how long not sure) by adding a little more grease. Thoughts? Thanks.

Cheers,

Best to email the team, send them your serial number and they'll be able to have a better idea of the potential problem. The previous 2 out of 3 pawls working was an old problem that has since been rectified - the team can tell from your serial number if it's one of those that had the chance of having that issue. However, it seems from looking on here that a newer problem is some hubs going out the factory without enough grease. I will bring it up with the team ASAP.

Where does one find the serial number on the wheels?
I have the same concern regarding the grease (or lack thereof), where should the grease be applied? Any official instructions on how to service the hubs?