Zipp 2020

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ryanw
in the industry
Posts: 2284
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

I wasn't too impressed with my 454s and sold them pretty sharpish.
Wheels felt dull and sluggish, squishy and not that responsive (polar opposite of Rapides).
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop

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Jackofallgrades
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:15 am

by Jackofallgrades

My experience with the 454s so far haven't blown me away given the price tag, crosswind stability is average for me (I'm 60kgs and have used old 404s and Knot 45s as references), I do get pushed around a bit on occasion but so far haven't had anything scary. They are light for the depth and do feel fast, even if I can't gauge exactly how fast by feel. Cornering has been good for me, holding the line well.
Cannondale SSEvo3 'Atticus' - 7.2kg
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161634

Cannondale Systemsix ’Dante’ - 7.7kg
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=167144

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

That's what I expected. Thanks, that's a pass for me
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

Jackofallgrades
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:15 am

by Jackofallgrades

Yeah, if I was paying with my own money (luckily didn't have to) the standard 404s are much better value, but Enve would be my pick overall.
Cannondale SSEvo3 'Atticus' - 7.2kg
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161634

Cannondale Systemsix ’Dante’ - 7.7kg
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=167144

yingyu
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:16 am

by yingyu

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:10 pm
Does anyone have experience with the 454 regarding crosswind stability?
I am planning on buying a pair of wheels for high alpine fondos. Them being wide is great for comfort, and then being light is great for climbing. However, I fear they might behave too similar to the 404, which I found to be a handful when racing down long mountain passes.
The Roval Rapide and ENVE SES 4.5AR have been pretty good for descending. I however recently crashed my Rapide, and the new ones are around 100g heavier. The 4.5AR are significantly heavier and the ones are laced to the wrong hubs to be interesting for me.
454 are not stable enough for me when cold front hits Pacific coast, and I don't like to pick my ride based on wind direction. I mostly run 353 for my weekend adventures.

Dumb question... wouldn't shallower wheels be better for alpine events? Among your options, 454 front wheel is indeed deeper than Rapide or 4.5 AR.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I have been looking for an aero wheel with around 50mm depth on the front, that doesn't weigh a ton, yet works with wider tires etc.
Bontrager RSL 51 probably the best option so far.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

pmprego
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:55 am
I have been looking for an aero wheel with around 50mm depth on the front, that doesn't weigh a ton, yet works with wider tires etc.
Bontrager RSL 51 probably the best option so far.
with no money restrictions, i don't see how the new enve wheels are not on the cards. The spec list is not outstanding when compared to other but not that bad either and every review that I see is that the ride quality is sublime. Way beyond what the spec list says. And they have the new 50f/59r that seems to fit you bill. That said... how are these better than the rapide, I don't know.

LookEzra
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:14 pm

by LookEzra

I was shopping for 404s and I realized that some stores sell them with a different dimpling pattern particularly the ones that come with Canyon bikes. The most common ones that you see most of the time are the sawtooth pattern but then theres ones like the pic below where the dimples are on the entire rim. Zipp also has these full dimple wheels on their site so I said maybe a new pair released? I reached out and they said that the wrong picture is on their site and the sawtooth pattern is the correct one but they never explained what this second set is.... anyone have any ideas?
98663E96-3A9C-4EE2-99AD-357F8E1C4A64.jpeg

Jackofallgrades
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:15 am

by Jackofallgrades

I believe that's just the previous generation wheelset but with the new decals. There was an overlap period with the new branding being released on those wheelsets before the new gen were released. Hence why you can also find non-hookless 404 wheelsets with the latest graphics (the ones you have pictured I believe).
Cannondale SSEvo3 'Atticus' - 7.2kg
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161634

Cannondale Systemsix ’Dante’ - 7.7kg
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=167144

LookEzra
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:14 pm

by LookEzra

Jackofallgrades wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:50 pm
I believe that's just the previous generation wheelset but with the new decals. There was an overlap period with the new branding being released on those wheelsets before the new gen were released. Hence why you can also find non-hookless 404 wheelsets with the latest graphics (the ones you have pictured I believe).
Ohh!!! Ok now this makes sense. Thank you so much

rass
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:06 pm

by rass

4 moths ago I swapped out some 2020 edition 404 NSw's for some new 454 NSW's. Here's a few thoughts on that.

The NSW 404's we're ok, but didn't really stand out for me. I'd riden tubular 404's hard a few years ago (like 13 years!) and they where great. So I suppose I was expecting something similar and just didn't get it.

I've never been keen on the 454 wavy looks but thought I'd give them a go due to the wide internal width and low pressure tubeless set up.

I have to say I have been very impressed. I'm running 28mm Conti 5000's and the ride is super smooth on poor quality UK roads. 64 psi front 68 psi rear they roll really well and, I assume due to the larger contact patch, corner superbly.

The weight out the box was 649gm front and 749gm rear so 1398gm for the pair. That's around 200gms lighter than the 404 NSW's. That's enough to feel a difference in responsiveness. It's probably not possible to measure that difference in any meaningful way but you all know how it is, it just feels better.

Anyhow over all the thing that makes the difference is the internal width. It significantly changes the ride, for the better.

I questioned my sanity when I pressed buy on the 454's but I'm very happy with them. They have been a joy to ride.

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Did Tour Mag ever wind tunnel test the hookless 303 FCs? I’m wondering how much worse they are aerodynamically than Rapides.


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I have the v1 Cognition hubs...not a fan. v2 were simplified for easier maintenance, but made worse in some ways. The ratchet sits on a foam spring lol.

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Spinnekop
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

by Spinnekop

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:20 am
I have the v1 Cognition hubs...not a fan. v2 were simplified for easier maintenance, but made worse in some ways. The ratchet sits on a foam spring lol.
I am still in love with those 353 wheels. Stunning. Light.
But the V2 hubs with their kitchen foam sponge in it and all the issues I had with it....swopping out hubs.....bike being in the shop more than being ridden, made me sell the wheels at a HUGE loss.
Currently riding Boras. Not as pretty and light but I have been RIDING my bike which is better than just looking at it on photos while it waits for repairs.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

ome rodriguez
Posts: 1371
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:16 am

by ome rodriguez

After all the hype of hookless and tubeless, I miss tubulars.
Looking for 303 Firecrest Discbrake Tubular Wheels.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
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