Zipp 2020

[pmprego]

After all the hype of hookless and tubeless, I miss tubulars.
Looking for 303 Firecrest Discbrake Tubular Wheels.

will they even make it? Roval does not seem to have plans to go that path. I don't see tubulars survive into the future. The same way as rim-brake.

[yingyu]

Zipp 454 NSW has tubular disc brake version for their sponsored athletes.

[LedZeppelin007]

There’s also a Pro only 303 FC tubular


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[LedZeppelin007]

I guess I’m trying to figure out how much slower the 303FC with say 28 Conti GP5000 STRs might be versus the Rapide CL with latex tubes and 28c Turbo Cottons. Any notions?


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[FlatlandClimber]

I guess I’m trying to figure out how much slower the 303FC with say 28 Conti GP5000 STRs might be versus the Rapide CL with latex tubes and 28c Turbo Cottons. Any notions?


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4.5W at 45kph according to Tour (Issue 10/2020). Rapide was close to the fastest on test (0.3W behind DT50), ZIPP the slowest.

[LedZeppelin007]

I guess I’m trying to figure out how much slower the 303FC with say 28 Conti GP5000 STRs might be versus the Rapide CL with latex tubes and 28c Turbo Cottons. Any notions?


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4.5W at 45kph according to Tour (Issue 10/2020). Rapide was close to the fastest on test (0.3W behind DT50), ZIPP the slowest.

And I have the CL version of the Rapides. I’m guessing the round spokes give 1-2 watts of those 4.5 back.

I love the wheels and I love the tires, but I’m getting sick of getting beaten up by the crappy roads around here.


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[yingyu]

Zipp 303 FC is actually rated for gravel. If you local roads are that bad, the additional vibration damping would more than offset the aero drag.

[LedZeppelin007]

Btw, ordered up 353s and Enve 4.5s.

Weight of the 353s with XDR driver and with tape/valves was 1326g on my scale. Compared to 1386g for the 303FC also with XDR and tape/valves.


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[LedZeppelin007]

So, the 4.5s literally exploded, and I’m now debating whether to keep the 353s or return them for 454s.

In theory, as a heavier rider, deeper wheels probably suit me better. However, I don’t plan to run anything less than a 28c tire in everyday use, which I understand really undercuts the aerodynamics of the 454. Am I better off with the 353?


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[yingyu]

353 with 28c front is likely more aero than 454 with 28c front.

[FlatlandClimber]

353 with 28c front is likely more aero than 454 with 28c front.

That's almost 100% likely to be wrong.
SRAM doesn't even claim the 353 to be at all aero, the design is just to be light and sturdy (as per SRAM).

ZIPP wheels perform pretty well with tires and ZIPP even recommends 28s as the best option for 858s

[yingyu]

In Enve's wind tunnel test, 454 comes behind 353 when paired with Enve's 27c tire. https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thi ... _8334.html

Zipp claims 454 is optimized for 25c, and 858 optimized for 28c. This doesn't mean 454 works well with 28c.

[FlatlandClimber]

Enve's chart is the opposite of conclusive. They named all ZIPP wheels incorrectly. We don't know if the 454 are the 2018 or 2021s were tested. Why do I even question that? Because the tested the Bontrager XXX wheels form 2016, and not the RSL wheels.

As per ZIPP, the 353 wasn't even designed in a windtunnel: "
Compare those measured tyre widths above to the 30.65 mm exterior width of the rim, and straight away, you can see that these wheels don’t meet the often referenced 105% rule and are therefore not going to please the aero-obsessed. In fact, according to Donzé, the 353 NSW did not spend design time in a wind tunnel."
Cyclingtips

I guess we don't know.
However, the 353 are not an aerodynamic wheel, but rather an all-road wheel. It's Almost certainly less aero than the 303, and also I have not found a tire combination that works aerodynamically by the 105 rule.
Every 28c I've seen on the 353 balloons to 31mm or more.
The 454 is narrower externally (by 2mm) but also internally (also by 2mm). So a 28c tire has a higher chance to come in at 28-29mm.

[pmprego]

In that regard, cadex did a nice move. Enlarged the sidewalls so it can have a slimmer ID (22.4mm) and the same external width (30mm). Here a 25c works for sure and even a 28c might work given that it won't balloon as much.

Actually, in my eyes, these new cadex are probably the best "all-rounder" wheelset now in the market (not caring about price)

[FlatlandClimber]

In other news, ENVE has very light, wide rims, too, that can also be custom build.
A 6.7 laced to a light hubset is around 1400g, and around 1350g when laced to something mega light like TR01.