Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!
Moderator: robbosmans
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Aryeh
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am
by Aryeh on Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:59 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:The tire pressure guides that various manufacturers provide are a good starting point. My approach has been to set the tire pressure as low as I can without the tire deforming too much during hard cornering. Granted it takes take some skill and experience to understand what too much tire deformation feels like. You can also thrash the bike back and forth out of the saddle at a low speed and monitor the front tire. if it is squishing and squirming all over the place than add some air.
A couple of things to remember are that going for low pressures is all about comfort and will be a bit slower on good surfaces, and the lower you go, the more likely you are to pinch flat even if the pressure is completely adequate in all other regards.
Of course total tire volume is the biggest determinant. 40 - 60 psi is a big range. 60 psi can work if you are not too big, but 40 psi would be a problem for most riders, especially for a 25mm tire, even one the measures 28mm on the rim.
I did a ton of testing a couple of years ago in preparation for an event that demanded maximum comfort, and found that at my weight of 76kg, I could not go below 60psi on an actual measure 30 - 31mm and 65psi was better. No punctures or pinch flats over 2000 km of nothing but nasty climbing and descending over 10 days on the shittiest roads anywhere in Europe. While this is with regular clinchers and latex inner tubes, my tests with tubless arrived at the same optimal pressures.
I'm running 28mm tires with measured width of 30 at 55psi front and 60 rear.
It feels fine down to like 45psi but I'm worried about reduced rolling resistance.
I weigh 64kg.
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mriddle
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:18 am
by mriddle on Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:15 pm
The Veloflex website notes that they don't recommend Orange Seal for tan wall tires.
Anyone know what the issue is?
They sell Joe's products but recommend several others such as Stans, Orange and Mavic.
Thanks!
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Smultie
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:30 am
by Smultie on Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:23 pm
Aryeh wrote:Mr.Gib wrote:The tire pressure guides that various manufacturers provide are a good starting point. My approach has been to set the tire pressure as low as I can without the tire deforming too much during hard cornering. Granted it takes take some skill and experience to understand what too much tire deformation feels like. You can also thrash the bike back and forth out of the saddle at a low speed and monitor the front tire. if it is squishing and squirming all over the place than add some air.
A couple of things to remember are that going for low pressures is all about comfort and will be a bit slower on good surfaces, and the lower you go, the more likely you are to pinch flat even if the pressure is completely adequate in all other regards.
Of course total tire volume is the biggest determinant. 40 - 60 psi is a big range. 60 psi can work if you are not too big, but 40 psi would be a problem for most riders, especially for a 25mm tire, even one the measures 28mm on the rim.
I did a ton of testing a couple of years ago in preparation for an event that demanded maximum comfort, and found that at my weight of 76kg, I could not go below 60psi on an actual measure 30 - 31mm and 65psi was better. No punctures or pinch flats over 2000 km of nothing but nasty climbing and descending over 10 days on the shittiest roads anywhere in Europe. While this is with regular clinchers and latex inner tubes, my tests with tubless arrived at the same optimal pressures.
I'm running 28mm tires with measured width of 30 at 55psi front and 60 rear.
It feels fine down to like 45psi but I'm worried about reduced rolling resistance.
I weigh 64kg.
Why would you worry about reduced rolling resistance?
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Aryeh
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am
by Aryeh on Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:25 pm
Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:Mr.Gib wrote:The tire pressure guides that various manufacturers provide are a good starting point. My approach has been to set the tire pressure as low as I can without the tire deforming too much during hard cornering. Granted it takes take some skill and experience to understand what too much tire deformation feels like. You can also thrash the bike back and forth out of the saddle at a low speed and monitor the front tire. if it is squishing and squirming all over the place than add some air.
A couple of things to remember are that going for low pressures is all about comfort and will be a bit slower on good surfaces, and the lower you go, the more likely you are to pinch flat even if the pressure is completely adequate in all other regards.
Of course total tire volume is the biggest determinant. 40 - 60 psi is a big range. 60 psi can work if you are not too big, but 40 psi would be a problem for most riders, especially for a 25mm tire, even one the measures 28mm on the rim.
I did a ton of testing a couple of years ago in preparation for an event that demanded maximum comfort, and found that at my weight of 76kg, I could not go below 60psi on an actual measure 30 - 31mm and 65psi was better. No punctures or pinch flats over 2000 km of nothing but nasty climbing and descending over 10 days on the shittiest roads anywhere in Europe. While this is with regular clinchers and latex inner tubes, my tests with tubless arrived at the same optimal pressures.
I'm running 28mm tires with measured width of 30 at 55psi front and 60 rear.
It feels fine down to like 45psi but I'm worried about reduced rolling resistance.
I weigh 64kg.
Why would you worry about reduced rolling resistance?
More watts to go the same speed.
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Smultie
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:30 am
by Smultie on Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:16 pm
Aryeh wrote:Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:Mr.Gib wrote:The tire pressure guides that various manufacturers provide are a good starting point. My approach has been to set the tire pressure as low as I can without the tire deforming too much during hard cornering. Granted it takes take some skill and experience to understand what too much tire deformation feels like. You can also thrash the bike back and forth out of the saddle at a low speed and monitor the front tire. if it is squishing and squirming all over the place than add some air.
A couple of things to remember are that going for low pressures is all about comfort and will be a bit slower on good surfaces, and the lower you go, the more likely you are to pinch flat even if the pressure is completely adequate in all other regards.
Of course total tire volume is the biggest determinant. 40 - 60 psi is a big range. 60 psi can work if you are not too big, but 40 psi would be a problem for most riders, especially for a 25mm tire, even one the measures 28mm on the rim.
I did a ton of testing a couple of years ago in preparation for an event that demanded maximum comfort, and found that at my weight of 76kg, I could not go below 60psi on an actual measure 30 - 31mm and 65psi was better. No punctures or pinch flats over 2000 km of nothing but nasty climbing and descending over 10 days on the shittiest roads anywhere in Europe. While this is with regular clinchers and latex inner tubes, my tests with tubless arrived at the same optimal pressures.
I'm running 28mm tires with measured width of 30 at 55psi front and 60 rear.
It feels fine down to like 45psi but I'm worried about reduced rolling resistance.
I weigh 64kg.
Why would you worry about reduced rolling resistance?
More watts to go the same speed.
You mean increased resistance?
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Aryeh
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am
by Aryeh on Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:21 pm
Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:I'm running 28mm tires with measured width of 30 at 55psi front and 60 rear.
It feels fine down to like 45psi but I'm worried about reduced rolling resistance.
I weigh 64kg.
Why would you worry about reduced rolling resistance?
More watts to go the same speed.
You mean increased resistance?
Yes. Lower tire pressure = higher rolling resistance = more power to keep the wheels rolling.
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Smultie
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:30 am
by Smultie on Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:30 pm
Aryeh wrote:Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:Smultie wrote:Why would you worry about reduced rolling resistance?
More watts to go the same speed.
You mean increased resistance?
Yes. Lower tire pressure = higher rolling resistance = more power to keep the wheels rolling.
You don't get it, do you?
You initially said you were worried about reduced rolling resistance.
Reduced rolling resistance is a good thing, you shouldn't be worried about.
It's increased rolling resistance you should be worried about!
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Aryeh
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am
by Aryeh on Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:35 pm
Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:Smultie wrote:Aryeh wrote:More watts to go the same speed.
You mean increased resistance?
Yes. Lower tire pressure = higher rolling resistance = more power to keep the wheels rolling.
You don't get it, do you?
You initially said you were worried about reduced rolling resistance.
Reduced rolling resistance is a good thing, you shouldn't be worried about.
It's increased rolling resistance you should be worried about!
I checked back. You're right!
My words were wrong!
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TobinHatesYou
- Posts: 12457
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
by TobinHatesYou on Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:47 am
mriddle wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:15 pm
The Veloflex website notes that they don't recommend Orange Seal for tan wall tires.
Anyone know what the issue is?
They sell Joe's products but recommend several others such as Stans, Orange and Mavic.
Thanks!
The issue is Orange Seal is orange and will stain the casing as it weeps through. I don’t think this is worse than any other sealant though. The color of the sealant wasn’t the issue, rather the fact that the sidewalls were damp/sticky all the time and attracting dirt/grime.
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Mr.Gib
- Posts: 5577
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
- Location: eh?
by Mr.Gib on Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:17 am
TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:47 am
mriddle wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:15 pm
The Veloflex website notes that they don't recommend Orange Seal for tan wall tires.
Anyone know what the issue is?
They sell Joe's products but recommend several others such as Stans, Orange and Mavic.
Thanks!
The issue is Orange Seal is orange and will stain the casing as it weeps through. I don’t think this is worse than any other sealant though. The color of the sealant wasn’t the issue, rather the fact that the sidewalls were damp/sticky all the time and attracting dirt/grime.
So do any of the supple cloth tubeless tires actually keep the sealant on the inside of the tire? I really like my various Vittoria clinchers but as they wear out I would like to go tubeless. Stuff like damp and sticky sidewalls is not very appealling regardless of colour. Starting to think I just won't beat regular Corsas with latex inner tubes.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.
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aeroisnteverything
- Posts: 893
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm
by aeroisnteverything on Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:07 pm
Mr.Gib wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:17 am
So do any of the supple cloth tubeless tires actually keep the sealant on the inside of the tire? I really like my various Vittoria clinchers but as they wear out I would like to go tubeless. Stuff like damp and sticky sidewalls is not very appealling regardless of colour. Starting to think I just won't beat regular Corsas with latex inner tubes.
yes, Vittoria Corsas do not weep any sealant at all. Good tyre, apart from a relatively disappointing RR.
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emotive
- Posts: 613
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
by emotive on Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:57 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:So do any of the supple cloth tubeless tires actually keep the sealant on the inside of the tire? I really like my various Vittoria clinchers but as they wear out I would like to go tubeless. Stuff like damp and sticky sidewalls is not very appealling regardless of colour. Starting to think I just won't beat regular Corsas with latex inner tubes.
The Rene Herse Extralight tyres that I have set up tubeless with Orange Seal do change to a slightly darker tan colour as a result of the sealant, see below. Left was tubeless, right was tuned. No sticky sidewalls though.