mavic cosmic lacing

[FactoryMatt]

noticed something odd on these 2019/20 mavic cosmic pro sl disc. with the front two-cross pattern, the 'outer' spoke doesn't cross UNDER the inner spoke. it DOES, however, with the rear lacing. is there a reason for this? did someone in Romania just not pay attention? the front spokes are twisting a bit because they're not making contact the with second crossed spoke.

thoughts??

EDIT - Mavic got back with me same day and confirmed they're all laced this way. I'm guessing it has to do with bracing angle on the front? idk.

[alcatraz]

That's very observant of you. It's a bit odd.

What does the seller tell you?

Wait for a more professional reply but I think some straightpull hub manufacturers have stopped recommending lacing spokes over/under. Maybe a strong enough build benefits very little from it.

[FactoryMatt]

but the rear is laced over under. the spoke hole offset doesn't seem too severe. just odd theyre inconsistent front to rear wheel

[Jugi]

Googled close-up product shots of "Mavic cosmic pro sl disc" hubs. All crossing patterns look like the outer spokes aren't crossing under.

[FactoryMatt]

for both front AND rear?

here, rear crosses, but front doesn't.

[FactoryMatt]

Mavic got back with me same day and confirmed they're all laced this way. I'm guessing it has to do with bracing angle on the front? idk.

[alcatraz]

I'd check out other wheelsets with the same/similar hubs and see how they are laced.

Just to exclude the possibility of mavic just trying to cover their ass.

[botacalor]

what is the advantage of this lacing method at the rear wheel? crossed at left and straight on the freehub side. Is the first time I see this method.

[FactoryMatt]

nothing. its a gimmick.

[alcatraz]

I believe it helps a little to reduce tension differences under torque. The spokes are a fraction less likely to break.

However I suspect it builds a slightly less stiff wheel. (If over/under spokes are allowed to flex more by movement of the crosses.)

I have zero proof for any of this.

[C36]

nothing. its a gimmick.

Well no... it allows better angle cause it’s a more compact way of lacing than when you are crossing on the DS then more stiffness and better tension balance.
It imposes a (bit) stiffer hub so torque is transmitted via the opposite flange.


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

[jlok]

nothing. its a gimmick.

Well no... it allows better angle cause it’s a more compact way of lacing than when you are crossing on the DS then more stiffness and better tension balance.
It imposes a (bit) stiffer hub so torque is transmitted via the opposite flange.


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

What's the trade off of the gained stiffness and better tension balance? Only 6 spokes are transmitting driving torque. Is it a significant weakness or not a concern at all?

[C36]

Not a concern at all. Torque transmission is not really an issue with our fairly small power. That’s quite a normal number of spokes passing the torque (a std 24 spokes 12 crosses and 12 radial... has the same 6 spokes passing the torque. Campy had Indurain, Zabel and Ulrich passing their power over 3 spokes taking the torque in the Shamal hpw12)


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

[FactoryMatt]

nothing. its a gimmick.

Well no... it allows better angle cause it’s a more compact way of lacing than when you are crossing on the DS then more stiffness and better tension balance.
It imposes a (bit) stiffer hub so torque is transmitted via the opposite flange.


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

Last cosmic discs i had had that lacing on the rear but ironically 2x/2x up front. Everyone else will run radial nds front. Not mavic. The isopulse rear ds persisted tho. Marketing driven company which is why they failed.

The rear had horrible windup btw. Rebuilt twice. Nope. I used to be a big mavic apologist and i do think their latest hubs are way underrated. Buut yeah no.

[C36]

nothing. its a gimmick.

Well no... it allows better angle cause it’s a more compact way of lacing than when you are crossing on the DS then more stiffness and better tension balance.
It imposes a (bit) stiffer hub so torque is transmitted via the opposite flange.


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.

Last cosmic discs i had had that lacing on the rear but ironically 2x/2x up front. Everyone else will run radial nds front. Not mavic. The isopulse rear ds persisted tho. Marketing driven company which is why they failed.

The rear had horrible windup btw. Rebuilt twice. Nope. I used to be a big mavic apologist and i do think their latest hubs are way underrated. Buut yeah no.

Thinking that Mavic technical choices are marketing gimmicks is at best a lack of technical knowledge. Their marketing team though hasn’t been able to get acceptance of engineers concepts in a market that prefer simpler ideas and less sensitive to details (imho).
Back to your point, a front wheel sees more braking related stress than the rear one and it has no stiffness problems thanks to the hub geometry. The rear wheels always have to look for more lateral stiffness, then the isopulse makes sense.


—————————————
- Supersix evo2 HM 5707g
- 1995 Miguel Indurain Pinarello restauration project
- R3000si Junior bike restauration project.