New S-Works Turbo Rapid Air tubeless tyre

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petromyzon
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

The point is that BRR test with butyl tubes, which makes it a little hard to sensibly compare tubeless with tubed.

Here is AeroCoach's data. Confusingly Xavier refers to the Specialized tyre as 2Bliss in the table, but RapidAir in the listing. Different protocol so not directly comparable to BRR. Not particularly flattering to RapidAirs or Wolfpack (but the latter, I think, trades specifically on grip).

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/time-trial ... tance-data
https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/inner-tube ... resistance

BRR have published a test of the new Michelin tubeless today putting it significantly behind Conti.
I'm not sure it is surprising that RapidAir is more recent and yet slower than TC - the latest breed of tubeless tyres seem to me making a different set of compromises - tougher sidewalls, air retention and ease of inflation.
The only "no compromise" tubeless ready tyres seem to be Corsa Speed and possibly Hutchinson Fusion Galaktik.

Imaking20
Posts: 2394
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

Fair points. The Galaktik doesnt seem to be THAT fast though, at least not relative to tires with fewer compromises, so I haven't yet seen the draw to them.


Edit: just looking at the Power TLR review. Seems a little unfair to benchmark as "significantly slower than Conti" which is a tire that apparently rolls quite well but gives up a number of other qualities (ride quality, weight, disintegrating etc). I'd say the Power TLR seems worthwhile considering its tied with the likes of Galaktik, TC, TLE and such.

by Weenie


petromyzon
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

"significantly slower than Conti" is exactly what it is. Jarno has GP5000 TL at 8.3W and no other general road race tyre below 10W.

Ride quality is subjective (I like the way my GP5000s feel)

Grip is apparently tested objectively by Wheel Energy (see Specialized laptop link) and no doubt by manufacturers. We don't have access to this data, only our own impressions.

Puncture resistance - you might argue that these tests are not very representative but Conti beats Michelin in this comparison.

Weight - the only unarguable quantity, but we know that it is relatively unimportant.

Disintegration - I've had some threads pull off some Contis years ago (not this tyre). I kept riding them. I've had much worse issues with other brands. There are many more GP5000s in the market than the other tyres we are discussing, so you will see every little wrinkle discussed.

Cost - presumably due to sales volume, Contis are amongst the cheapest premium tyre in my region - a whole 30% cheaper than Turbo Cottons, my other favourite.

We have to be careful. Conti know Jarno's site is popular and a lot of athletes, including some at a high level (e.g. Ironman Pros) may make equipment decisions based upon it. Rolling resistance isn't the whole story and they may have traded off some other properties that we can't measure to lead the table in the one that we do.

My personal *guess* is that they have made a heavier and faster wearing tyre in order to make a faster one.
But why are people working so hard to pretend it's not comfortably the best all round road racing clincher/tubeless tyre on the market?

Imaking20
Posts: 2394
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

Because some people are better bike handlers - and therefore have higher demands/expectations for grip.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 6658
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Personally I’m not hunting minute Crr improvements except in a TT or hill climb. In those cases I’d choose the Corsa Speed G2.0. In any other case, I care more about the GP5K’s questionable wet grip and durability than its great rolling efficiency. For now I’m still on the Corsa G2.0 bandwagon, indifferent to the new Schwalbe Pro Ones and haven’t tried the RapidAirs.

spdntrxi
Posts: 3988
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I didn't find GP5000TL all that awe inspiring in the grip department.. and rode them over the winter. I doubt I buy them again. Have not tried RapidAir.. need to go through some others first.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

Lieblingsleguan
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm

by Lieblingsleguan

petromyzon wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:25 pm
The point is that BRR test with butyl tubes, which makes it a little hard to sensibly compare tubeless with tubed.

Here is AeroCoach's data. Confusingly Xavier refers to the Specialized tyre as 2Bliss in the table, but RapidAir in the listing. Different protocol so not directly comparable to BRR. Not particularly flattering to RapidAirs or Wolfpack (but the latter, I think, trades specifically on grip).

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/time-trial ... tance-data
https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/inner-tube ... resistance

BRR have published a test of the new Michelin tubeless today putting it significantly behind Conti.
I'm not sure it is surprising that RapidAir is more recent and yet slower than TC - the latest breed of tubeless tyres seem to me making a different set of compromises - tougher sidewalls, air retention and ease of inflation.
The only "no compromise" tubeless ready tyres seem to be Corsa Speed and possibly Hutchinson Fusion Galaktik.
Is the aero coach test with butyl or latex tubes for the clinchers? (I guess latex seeing that the GP5000 C is faster than the TL counterpart?)

xav
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: UK

by xav

We test with latex tubes (Vittoria) for clinchers

JonnyBax
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:31 pm

by JonnyBax

Have any of you guys run this tire on the occasional dirt road or hard-packed gravel MUP? I'll be setting up my first tubeless tires with CLX32s on a Tarmac SL6 in the near future. We have some gravel/dirt MUP that are pretty well curated and hard packed. I'd only be on them for a couple miles at a time to get me out of town and clear of cars.

Also, if I go this route, would 28s be more robust than 26s?

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