Best wet braking pad on carbon rims - update 2019

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PrimO
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:49 pm

by PrimO

I done a 135km ride with 1200m of climbing in very wet conditions, it baiscally rained for the first 3 hours and so the roads were very wet. I have Fulcrum Quattros with red campag/fulcrum pads and i had zero issues braking on descents or anywhere else. Naturally wet braking isnt as good as in the dry but I found it no better or worse than braking in the wet on alloy rims. The pads appear to be wearing faster than regular alloy braking surface pads and they are expensive but totally worth it for the peace of mind that you're not going to be left without brakes in the wet. I dont know how they would work on non fulcrum/campag wheels but it may be worth trying out.

Etienne
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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:43 am
Has anyone tried campy pads on non-campy/fulcrum carbon rims? How are they?
I use Campy red pads on DA 7900 brakes with chinese carbon rims with "basalt" coating ... braking power is excellent but a little bit noisy (but less than disc brakes in the wet) :?

... so everyone around knows I'm braking, not a bad thing security-wise :lol:

by Weenie


alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Thanks

I found some nearly new campagnolo pads for 20usd. I also got some barradine blue 453pro, some giant slr pads and some shimano r55c4 carbon pads. I had black princes before but no longer so can't make a direct comparison.

I'll bring water and soak the front wheel. Not close to being the real thing but without other options it's what we have available.

We'll test on farsports rims and some other chinese wheelsets, with and without textured brake tracks. We also have bontrager d3 tubular rims we can test on.

Last time I went with group recommended premium pads I was underwhelmed. (Possibly because I ride steep descents in the dry mostly, black prince has no advantage there.) Lets hope that won't happen again.

cajer
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

There's no specific pad that is the best. What's important is the combination of pads + rims as every combination will be different. You should generally use the pads recommended by the manufactuer as otherwise your rims will wear out faster and may overheat. If you don't care about that there are definately some non manufacuter recommended pads that will brake better. But again it's rim dependent if you have a bad rim, it's unlikely just changing the pads will make it brake well.

alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Lets discuss hardness of "recommended" pads and the type of brake surface.

Campagnolo and zipp use very temperature resistant resin that gets more brittle = higher hardness?.

They also have textured brake tracks.

Is it possible that for such resiliant and abraisive brake surfaces the pads are simply harder because they can be without damaging the surface?

What of flat brake tracks. Do they usually come with softer recommended pads?

Did the campagnolo red pad change between pre-ac3 and post-ac3? I understand that's when campagnolo went textured brake track.

TheKaiser
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

FIJIGabe wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:08 pm
In recent memory, I've only had three experiences to use carbon rim-brake wheels in the rain: twice with ZIPP wheels and most recent Tangente pads, and the other day with 2nd gen Bontrager Aeolus wheels and Black Prince pads. I can tell you, that without a shadow of a doubt, ZIPP wheels with the Tangente pads are SCARY! On one occassion, on the shoulder of a roadway, I hit the brakes to make a right turn, and sailed right past my turn. On another occassion, I had to drop off the back of the group, just to give me enough space to stop.

(the ZIPPS have a textured brake track, where the Bontragers don't appear to have one)
Wow, I would have hoped that the Showstopper texture on the brake track would have made them a little more consistent and resilient to varying conditions than that!

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I don’t think the newest Campy rims (AC3) are really “textured” in the way you think when looking at the likes of rims with file like serrations, or a sandy coating of basalt or something glued to the rim surface. Rather, they are a bit rougher than their predecessor (and noisier) due to what I presume is kind of a laser like removal of some of the resins on the surface. The semi circle like marks are remnants of the manufacturing process and I don’t believe really add much to the braking experience. In fact, up close, in the right light, I can see remnants of those same semicircles on Bora brake tracks from before the 2015 versions even. What I like about the brake track is it really is a part of the wheel, not just some coating or layer of stuff added afterwards. If you wear through it, I’d imagine the rim will be toast since there won’t be anything left. But I’ve never worn through a Bora rim brake surface before and don’t know anyone who has, but it’s not like everyone is riding on Boras either so take that for what it’s worth. I keep thinking I would like to just slap in a set of Boras on my fendered rain bike some winter (the braking is good enough) and just actually try to destroy the brake surface just to understand from first hand experience what it would actually take to destroy a set in consistent inclement weather. Trouble is, it’s not the potential of destroying a set of Boras that bothers me, rather it’s just that I hate riding in the rain.

Regarding the red pads, they’ve been out for some time, like I want to say almost 10 years but probably more like 8 or so. My first set of Boras came with some brownish type pads. Then they went to a greyish type pad (think along the lines of Zipp’s Platinum), then the red pads came shortly after and have been around ever since. I do think they’re quite hard, but I wouldn’t use anything else on these rims. I’ve used some used carbon rims that seemed quite porous in the weave (Lightweights) that had terrible braking, but I know that with a good set of Lightweights and their own quite hard grey pads (made by Swissstop), the braking, at least in the dry, was very good. I could only attribute the very poor braking on the used set of Lightweights to either using pads that left a residue embedded in the porosity of the brake track or perhaps being overheated at some point. That’s kind of a risk you take when you buy used wheels off someone you don’t know.
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FIJIGabe
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by FIJIGabe

TheKaiser wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:36 pm
FIJIGabe wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:08 pm
In recent memory, I've only had three experiences to use carbon rim-brake wheels in the rain: twice with ZIPP wheels and most recent Tangente pads, and the other day with 2nd gen Bontrager Aeolus wheels and Black Prince pads. I can tell you, that without a shadow of a doubt, ZIPP wheels with the Tangente pads are SCARY! On one occassion, on the shoulder of a roadway, I hit the brakes to make a right turn, and sailed right past my turn. On another occassion, I had to drop off the back of the group, just to give me enough space to stop.

(the ZIPPS have a textured brake track, where the Bontragers don't appear to have one)
Wow, I would have hoped that the Showstopper texture on the brake track would have made them a little more consistent and resilient to varying conditions than that!
I should have clarified: these aren't showstopper rims. These are the older Firecrest design.
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alcatraz
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Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Thanks Calnago.

I'm excited to try the campagnolo red pads. If not for every day use at least I can have a set with me when traveling or racing. Lets see if I can destroy a chinese brake track with them. :D

For fair weather riding/training (99%) I'll just use cork pads I think. I have a large supply. :lol:

After testing the pads I've ordered I'll report my findings.

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