Nonsense disc brake wheels

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Raccooningtanuki
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:30 am

by Raccooningtanuki

Hemming and hawing about my rear wheel options. Votes or opinions welcome.

A hed h3 disc brake.

A shamal ultra g3 tubular rim laced to a novatec 28h disc hub with a nonsense selection of soma color spokes.

Chinese Zipp 454 nsw shark rim laced to novatec disc hub.

Chinese 80mm dimpled 21h g3 laced to novatec disc hub.
Spring propel viewtopic.php?t=140915
Fall guru merus viewtopic.php?t=155877
Summer carver nonsense viewtopic.php?t=156795

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 2208
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Most chinese rims have brake tracks.

The chinese 454 can't be had in any other hole config than 20 or 24.

Chinese 404's can be had in any hole config.

Try to find a lighter disc brake specific rim for the wheel to look the part and score half of an aero watt.

Raccooningtanuki
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:30 am

by Raccooningtanuki

alcatraz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm
Most chinese rims have brake tracks.

The chinese 454 can't be had in any other hole config than 20 or 24.

Chinese 404's can be had in any hole config.

Try to find a lighter disc brake specific rim for the wheel to look the part and score half of an aero watt.
I don’t trust Chinese carbon brake tracks so any full carbon Chinese rim is disc brake material on my bikes.

You think 24h is too low for the rear on a road bike? If going for watts would your choice be a h3 then? If I did a 404 I’d want to try running a g3 lacing but not sure I’d trust a vendor who doesn’t have g3 21h listed as a option to do it custom.

Rim options listed as disc only are uninspiring. And it’s too early imo to look for aero disc specific rims on the Chinese market
Spring propel viewtopic.php?t=140915
Fall guru merus viewtopic.php?t=155877
Summer carver nonsense viewtopic.php?t=156795

joejack951
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

alcatraz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm
Most chinese rims have brake tracks.
Both Hong Fu and Farsports have made 'disc' rims for me by simply leaving off the basalt brake track with no other changes. Farsports wanted to 'reinforce' their rim (adding 30 grams) but honored my request to leave the rim as-is (@253 grams for a 25mm deep tubular).
alcatraz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm
The chinese 454 can't be had in any other hole config than 20 or 24.
24H is fine for a rear disc wheel. Plenty of hub options.

Raccooningtanuki
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:30 am

by Raccooningtanuki

joejack951 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:22 pm
alcatraz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm
Most chinese rims have brake tracks.
alcatraz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm
The chinese 454 can't be had in any other hole config than 20 or 24.
24H is fine for a rear disc wheel. Plenty of hub options.
There’s a 80mm zipp dimple copy with 21h g3 lacing. Would 21h on Chinese rear disc brake wheel be too much? It can be technically laced to any 28h hub
Spring propel viewtopic.php?t=140915
Fall guru merus viewtopic.php?t=155877
Summer carver nonsense viewtopic.php?t=156795

joejack951
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

Raccooningtanuki wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:38 pm
There’s a 80mm zipp dimple copy with 21h g3 lacing. Would 21h on Chinese rear disc brake wheel be too much? It can be technically laced to any 28h hub
Would you feel comfortable riding a 21H rear wheel with rim brakes at your current weight? With an 80mm rim, I think it would have a good chance of being reliable, as opposed to something much shorter in height. A quick CAD sketch says you'd need a 47mm tall rim with 24 spokes to have the same linear spacing between spokes as an 80mm tall rim with 21 spokes. No one questions 40-50mm tall rims with 24H so I'm even more inclined to say it'll work out.

User avatar
ms6073
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Not sure what depth you want, but my suggestion for a no-nonsense carbon disc brake wheelset would be to take a look at Nox Composites Falkor 36d.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

alcatraz
Posts: 2208
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

What do you actually need?

28h shallow or 21h deep. They'd behave differently.

24h rear is fine but it wouldn't qualify as no-nonsense if you're 100kg. (Depends on how you ride too. )

21h can be very satisfying for lighter riders, but I determined it's more of a time trial configuration where you probably shouldn't torque the wheel excessively. So stay seated and take care when riding technical segments.

I don't believe I've seen a 21h disc brake hub for custom builds.

I'll build my future rim brake wheels as 16/21 spoke but I'm light and I spin the cranks, rarely go out of saddle.

The reason I bring up brake tracks is because they look out of place on a wheelset you've paid good money and/or worked hard to build. It's like a driving a porsche with a trailer coupling.

Disc specific rims shouldn't need to be reinforced. Quite the opposite they could drop weight and distribute material around to be stronger at a lower weight. The difference might not be huge but it could be nice to have in this day and age (of disc brakes).

A few months ago I stumbled across an offer of bontrager xxx 2 inspired tubular rims. The disc version was 190gr and the rim brake one 255gr.

User avatar
Klaster_1
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
Location: Russia

by Klaster_1

alcatraz wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:04 am
A few months ago I stumbled across an offer of bontrager xxx 2 inspired tubular rims. The disc version was 190gr and the rim brake one 255gr.
Do you have a link?

Raccooningtanuki
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:30 am

by Raccooningtanuki

alcatraz wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:04 am
What do you actually need?

28h shallow or 21h deep. They'd behave differently.

24h rear is fine but it wouldn't qualify as no-nonsense if you're 100kg. (Depends on how you ride too. )

21h can be very satisfying for lighter riders, but I determined it's more of a time trial configuration where you probably shouldn't torque the wheel excessively. So stay seated and take care when riding technical segments.

I don't believe I've seen a 21h disc brake hub for custom builds.

I'll build my future rim brake wheels as 16/21 spoke but I'm light and I spin the cranks, rarely go out of saddle.

The reason I bring up brake tracks is because they look out of place on a wheelset you've paid good money and/or worked hard to build. It's like a driving a porsche with a trailer coupling.

Disc specific rims shouldn't need to be reinforced. Quite the opposite they could drop weight and distribute material around to be stronger at a lower weight. The difference might not be huge but it could be nice to have in this day and age (of disc brakes).

A few months ago I stumbled across an offer of bontrager xxx 2 inspired tubular rims. The disc version was 190gr and the rim brake one 255gr.
I’m assuming a g3 21h rim should be laceable to a 28h hub both being factors of 7. Unless I’m missing something.

I’m 75kg but not much of a spinner. Ridden everything from 23s to 80s to front and rear disks. I like slippery
Spring propel viewtopic.php?t=140915
Fall guru merus viewtopic.php?t=155877
Summer carver nonsense viewtopic.php?t=156795

alcatraz
Posts: 2208
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Klaster_1 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:34 am
alcatraz wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:04 am
A few months ago I stumbled across an offer of bontrager xxx 2 inspired tubular rims. The disc version was 190gr and the rim brake one 255gr.
Do you have a link?
It was from the second hand market pages in China. Hard to provide any real info. The seller said they were original bontrager rims but without the logos. They were only available in 20/24. Now they're all sold out. I was curious to try a set but I've always held back on switching to tubulars. I built myself a set of 1200gr 38mm clinchers instead.

alcatraz
Posts: 2208
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

If you're not a spinner then maybe custom 21h isn't for you. I wouldn'g go lower than 24h for 75kg provided you like medium cadence. You can still go G3 or 2:1 with 24h.

Had you said you were looking for a tt like wheelset riding tucked out of the wind 99% of the time then 21h would be a decent choice. :)

I wonder what's the fascination with G3 apart from looking cool? I get it's a bit more aerodynamic but if the idea is to copy campy wheels it's not going to be close to the same. They have proprietary rims/spokes/hubs for that. For custom I'd just use regular spacing. (I'm not a pro wheelbuilder, obv.)

I'd go out on a limb and claim that the bora wheels would most likely perform better if they wouldn't be G3.

Raccooningtanuki
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:30 am

by Raccooningtanuki

alcatraz wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:49 am
If you're not a spinner then maybe custom 21h isn't for you. I wouldn'g go lower than 24h for 75kg provided you like medium cadence. You can still go G3 or 2:1 with 24h.

Had you said you were looking for a tt like wheelset riding tucked out of the wind 99% of the time then 21h would be a decent choice. :)

I wonder what's the fascination with G3 apart from looking cool? I get it's a bit more aerodynamic but if the idea is to copy campy wheels it's not going to be close to the same. They have proprietary rims/spokes/hubs for that. For custom I'd just use regular spacing. (I'm not a pro wheelbuilder, obv.)

I'd go out on a limb and claim that the bora wheels would most likely perform better if they wouldn't be G3.
I like odd lacings? I like the old 7700 Shimano lacing and rolf’s nutty stuff but that’s even more difficult to search for. 16h rear disc brake is nonexistent or even less feasible.

I have tucked days and dancing out of the saddle days. But I’m not a high cadence spinner on any day. Guess I’m narrowed down to a h3 or 454
Spring propel viewtopic.php?t=140915
Fall guru merus viewtopic.php?t=155877
Summer carver nonsense viewtopic.php?t=156795

Raccooningtanuki
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:30 am

by Raccooningtanuki

I’m looking for qr disc hubs. Bitex 106 i can only find at bike hubstore for near 150$ shipped to Japan and that’s rear hub only. Bitex 106 is on eBay for around 100$ with free shipping but only through axle.

Bitex 106 - 245g ~150$
Novatec 792 - 280g ~80-100$
Bitex 306 - 270g ~185$
Dt 350 - 271g ~246$
Novatec ds11/12 - ?g ~70$
Spring propel viewtopic.php?t=140915
Fall guru merus viewtopic.php?t=155877
Summer carver nonsense viewtopic.php?t=156795

by Weenie


bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4922
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

2:1 lacing for disc brake or g3 for that matter means the radial non drive side spokes have substantially higher spoke tension than the drive side spokes.

Why people and campagnolo think this is good idea I cant follow. You get a better tension balance lacing normally with an asymmetric rim. I get a 74% tension balance with a kinlin offset rim with a disc brake hub ( geometry for all of them is very similar). So that 1250n ds and 930n nds. For g3 or 2:1 youd have 1250n nds and 830n ds.

I could go on but I struggle to see an upside for 2:1 for disc brake wheels

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post