Wheels for high-end winter bike

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Multebear
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

^agreed.

CK's are probably the best performing hubs. But it comes down to fractions of watts IMO. Nothing you will feel. You will feel the hazzle and the money that goes into servicing them, though.

For me, I just want to have as meny troublefree miles as possible with top performance. That's why DT are my favorite pick. I have a wheelset with CK's, and I love them. But if I knew it would rain, I'd bring my DT hubbed wheels instead. Nothing beats the free hub sound af CK's though.

Regarding Hed Belgium + rims. Those are very nice. But for pure performance, not so much. They are alloy and thus inferior performing to carbon. Heavier, less aero and expensive (expensive for a alloy rim). Several chinese carbon rims perform better than the Belgiums. IMO choosing alloy rims for a discbrake wheelset really doesn't make any sense unless you're on a budget.

by Weenie


dim
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

Multebear wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:23 pm
^agreed.


Regarding Hed Belgium + rims. Those are very nice. But for pure performance, not so much. They are alloy and thus inferior performing to carbon. Heavier, less aero and expensive (expensive for a alloy rim). Several chinese carbon rims perform better than the Belgiums. IMO choosing alloy rims for a discbrake wheelset really doesn't make any sense unless you're on a budget.
read the OP's first post ... he has 'quality high end' steel bike .... it will look nerdy having aero carbon Yoleo or Planet X rims on his steel bike (don't you think?)

and, how much heavier are Hed Belgium Plus rims with Chris King hubs than you favourite carbon aero wheels? (the HED with CK hubs weigh just over 1600 grams for the wheelset ...

and how much faster will you be on the carbon aero wheels? (I read that you will be lucky to be faster that 40 seconds on a 40Km course (assuming the wind is in your favour ... I don't know how true that is though?)

the HED Belgium Plus with CK hubs works out at approx $1300 .... what can you offer in carbon, that is aero, looks as good, is proper quality with quality hubs,, and that weighs less for a similar price or cheaper?
Trek Emonda SL6
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jbucky1
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:39 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
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by jbucky1

dim wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:28 pm
jbucky1 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:30 pm
dim wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:08 am
HED Belgium Plus rims, Sapim CX Ray spokes with Chris King R45D hubs
I like what you said here +1, but also might want to note that CK don't make a 12mm 142 campag set up. If that is the frame.
https://chrisking.com/products/part-hub ... xle-142x12
Yeah, ... theres no campag 12 x 142, just shimano / xdr

jbucky1
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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by jbucky1

dim wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:12 pm
the HED Belgium Plus with CK hubs works out at approx $1300 .... what can you offer in carbon, that is aero, looks as good, is proper quality with quality hubs,, and that weighs less for a similar price or cheaper?
I think thats totally right. The belgiums and kings are a great combo for $1300

Multebear
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

@dim

This is WW. Weight and performance does matter. Especially since OP mentions, that money isn’t an issue.

Yeoleo on a steel bike is the budget option. I would pick Zipp 202 or the Enve option. But chinese rims come both with and without decals. Nerdy is in the eye of the beholder.

A wheelset with CK and Belgiums is a very nice wheelset. But IMO it doesn’t fit OP’s requirements. And as mentioned, alloy rims don’t really make sense on a DB bike. They are heavy and not as aero as carbon. You’ll easily find carbon rims in the 410 grams ballpark or less like zipp 202. And they are way more aero than Belgiums.

EDIT: If you insist on alloy rims, pick at least the most aero one of them all - AForce al33

kgibbo1868
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:36 pm

by kgibbo1868

If it’s not a racing wheel I would go for CK and Hed rims. Get the spoke count and lacing pattern to suit your needs and your sweet. Purchase the service tool and learn to do it yourself and you will have a sweet wheel set that will last a LONG time. Those hubs have many colour choices and are as pretty as any hub on the market.


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Pain is my friend!

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

wintershade wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:01 pm
I’m a bit torn on wheelset choice for my next winter/rain bike. It’s a custom steel Stelbel Rodano Disc, Campy Record 12 with room for 30c rubber with full fenders. I’m planning to run Schwalbe G-One Speeds, my first time running tubeless. If Indont like them I’ll switch to trusty 28mm Conti 4 Season.

Here are the options I’m considering
1) Zonda Disc
2) Shamal Ultra Disc Dark Label — I like the looks better, though the bladed spokes make for a firm ride and catch wind
3) Bora WTO 45 Disc — Brand new, C19 might pair better with 28-30 tires, lighter, even better aesthetic match, but is this overkill for a full fender rain bike??
4) Something custom and bomb proof, ideas?

Budget/price is NOT important.
If you want something special to go with that bike....

https://www.alchemistbikes.com/en/shop/road-disc

I would go for Z40 with aluminium hubs (according to Alchemist, they're stronger)
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

kgibbo1868
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:36 pm

by kgibbo1868

Here is the tool to service CK hubs and it comes with the technical manual. I had never heard of not being allowed to purchase a tool without attending a clinic, another urban legend I guess..... :thumbup:

https://chrisking.com/collections/hub-t ... 5-hub-tool
Pain is my friend!

wintershade
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by wintershade

CK hubs are not an option with disc brake 12 speed Campagnolo. I know it shows up on CK website, but they don’t work.

rollinslow
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

wintershade wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:01 pm
I’m a bit torn on wheelset choice for my next winter/rain bike. It’s a custom steel Stelbel Rodano Disc, Campy Record 12 with room for 30c rubber with full fenders. I’m planning to run Schwalbe G-One Speeds, my first time running tubeless. If Indont like them I’ll switch to trusty 28mm Conti 4 Season.

Here are the options I’m considering
1) Zonda Disc
2) Shamal Ultra Disc Dark Label — I like the looks better, though the bladed spokes make for a firm ride and catch wind
3) Bora WTO 45 Disc — Brand new, C19 might pair better with 28-30 tires, lighter, even better aesthetic match, but is this overkill for a full fender rain bike??
4) Something custom and bomb proof, ideas?

Budget/price is NOT important.

If you want bombproof and custom, why not go with HED Belgium Plus laced to DT Swiss 180 hubs since you can't run CK?

Bigger Gear
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:58 pm
Location: Wet coast, Canada

by Bigger Gear

I'm on the west coast but much further north of you. My winter wheel setup is now HED Belgium+ on DT240S centerlock hubs with Sapim CX-Ray spokes and brass nipples. Ticks all the boxes for me, simple, reliable, but still on the higher end vs something cheaper. I also considered the Shimano 9100 C40 wheels, but I was worried about using a carbon rim with the potential for salty wet roads.

IMO, King R45 are superb hubs, but they do require a reasonable amount of maintenance. My old rim brake winter bike had R45 hubs and I was always having to pull the driveshell and axle to clean/lube as I would get some creaking/grinding/knocking after really wet wet rides. Honestly for me, the DT240S are pretty bomber and only need maintenance if a bearing goes bad.

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TonyM
Posts: 3259
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

Bigger Gear wrote: .... I also considered the Shimano 9100 C40 wheels, but I was worried about using a carbon rim with the potential for salty wet roads.
What do you worry about using carbon rim with salty wet roads?

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Aluminium + salt = corrosion!
That's why you use brass nipples on winter wheelsets
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

wintershade
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:12 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by wintershade

Bigger Gear wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:43 am
I'm on the west coast but much further north of you. My winter wheel setup is now HED Belgium+ on DT240S centerlock hubs with Sapim CX-Ray spokes and brass nipples. Ticks all the boxes for me, simple, reliable, but still on the higher end vs something cheaper. I also considered the Shimano 9100 C40 wheels, but I was worried about using a carbon rim with the potential for salty wet roads.

IMO, King R45 are superb hubs, but they do require a reasonable amount of maintenance. My old rim brake winter bike had R45 hubs and I was always having to pull the driveshell and axle to clean/lube as I would get some creaking/grinding/knocking after really wet wet rides. Honestly for me, the DT240S are pretty bomber and only need maintenance if a bearing goes bad.
Thanks. This is good advice. I agree regarding CK hub maintaince also. Even if they were available (which they're not), maintaining the hub is yet another thing to do, which I'd rather not have to tend to. I'm also confused though about the concern with carbon and wet/salty roads? Wouldn't carbon actually be better than aluminum rims?

Do options are HED + DT Swiss hubs, vs Shamals or Bora WTOs. I'm kind of leaning to the Shamals though, as I do wonder if a 45mm deep carbon rim is really the best choice for a winter/rain bike that won't be raced.

Multebear
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

^when you're on disc brakes, the most important wheelcomponent are hubs. The rims only serve as an empty shell that holds tires and spokes in place. Hubs are the weak point of a discwheel when it comes to durability. Hubs are where your problems occur, if you choose the wrong ones. Rims will either give you a little more or a little less performance. But there wont be any maintenance of the rims.

Carbon rims don't rust/corrode or wear in any way because of salt, water, foul weather or whatever you put them through. Alloy rims corrode after a long time. But I would't choose rim material because of corrosoin. Unless you keep the wheelset for 10-15 years, you wont have problems with corrosion of alloy rims.

If I had to choose between the wheels you mention, I'd pick the Bora's, because Campa make good hubs and the rim is high performance. But as I mentioned before, it's a race wheel, the seals of the hubs is not made for daily use en foul weather. And that is why, I would choose a wheelset with DT swiss hubs and carbon rims.

Shamals are fine wheels, but they are a bit boring. And there really is no reason to choose alloy rims on a disc brake bike. You'll carry around redundant weight and you'll sacrifice aero performance.

by Weenie


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