Enve 5.6s or Zipp 303/404 NSW?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
flowerbomber
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 4:40 pm

by flowerbomber

Deciding between these wheelsets and I’m wondering if anyone could give their experiences on thoughts on these wheelsets and I was wondering if it’s a good idea to buy the 303s upfront and the 404s for the rears to mimic the staggered setup of the Enves. Any help would be appreciated! :beerchug:

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 5435
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

5.6s are 54/63mm
303s are 45mm and 404s are 58mm

I wouldn't bother with staggering the Zipp setup unless you want to go slower.

Kazyole
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:45 am
Location: NYC

by Kazyole

I had rim brake 303 NSWs. No complaints at all about them. Rode them regularly for a year and a half before moving to Rovals for the weight savings. I will say I was very impressed with the braking performance of the 303s. That showstopper brake track surface really works well. Mine were 1477g for the pair. They behave very nicely in the wind as well. I'm a small guy (~58kg) and didn't have any problems with getting blown around on them.

As for the staggering...I mean if you like the look and want to do it, go for it. But the front wheel is the most aerodynamically significant so at that point I'd probably just go full 404.

flowerbomber
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 4:40 pm

by flowerbomber

Kazyole wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:25 pm
I had rim brake 303 NSWs. No complaints at all about them. Rode them regularly for a year and a half before moving to Rovals for the weight savings. I will say I was very impressed with the braking performance of the 303s. That showstopper brake track surface really works well. Mine were 1477g for the pair. They behave very nicely in the wind as well. I'm a small guy (~58kg) and didn't have any problems with getting blown around on them.

As for the staggering...I mean if you like the look and want to do it, go for it. But the front wheel is the most aerodynamically significant so at that point I'd probably just go full 404.
How are the cognition hubs?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 5435
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

flowerbomber wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:58 pm

How are the cognition hubs?
They are very uh “sticky” for like the first couple thousand miles. The freehub driver is draggy if you just spin them in a stand. If I just rolled my bike while walking around, the crankset would spin. Doesn’t happen after the cognition grease gets a chance to warm up.

The freehub mechanism sounds awful just spinning it in a stand but is almost inaudible when riding. I doubt any of this important from a performance standpoint.

TimF
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 pm

by TimF

Are you buying new? Second hand 303 NSW's can be picked up at very good rates (in the UK). The Enve set would be considerably more expensive. There really is nothing lacking in the 303's, they do everything well. If you have little frame clearance the 19mm internal width helps. If you are riding mainly on the flat at high speed 404 is more suitable, if you are alround riding then 303. I wouldn't stagger.

I have the 303 NSW's and cannot fault them. I second the braking performance previously mentioned.

Kazyole
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:45 am
Location: NYC

by Kazyole

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:43 pm
flowerbomber wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:58 pm

How are the cognition hubs?
They are very uh “sticky” for like the first couple thousand miles. The freehub driver is draggy if you just spin them in a stand. If I just rolled my bike while walking around, the crankset would spin. Doesn’t happen after the cognition grease gets a chance to warm up.

The freehub mechanism sounds awful just spinning it in a stand but is almost inaudible when riding. I doubt any of this important from a performance standpoint.
I got them secondhand so I didn't really experience much of that break-in period. But I can confirm the freehub mechanism. Fortunately as you said, it's pretty quiet when you're actually riding

akaspin
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:36 pm

by akaspin

Do anybody have experience with ENVE 4.5 and open tubulars? It's related to "tiregate" and ENVE's bulletin. As I see on enve site 4.5 rims is significantly differs from others (3.4, 5.6).

pmehra
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:35 pm

by pmehra

I've owned both Zipp 454 NSWs and currently own Enve 5.6 (both disc).

My impressions: the magnetic engagement in the NSW wheels are biggest performance innovation imo. You will descend visbily faster. I do not have data, but on the same routes I'd drop faster than my heavier friend (both of us in the drops) when using the NSWs. Enve's wheels are more stable. This is what really sold me on Enve. Zipp claims its whale skin (or whatever jargon they are using today) helps with cross winds. I feel much more secure on the 5.6's.

Additionally the Enve's are also lighter and have a better warranty. No cycling company has perfect manufacturing. I feel much happier knowing that my $3k wheels are covered. Enve takes a while to replace the wheels in the event of an accident but they do deliver. At the time of writing, I think Zipp only offers a 2 year warranty.

I personally like the look of the Zipps more but the sound of the Enves more.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 5435
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

pmehra wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:16 pm
At the time of writing, I think Zipp only offers a 2 year warranty.

Zipp is switching to lifetime warranty, but I don’t believe they have a no-questions damage replacement policy.

E: Happy to be wrong here. The new warranty policy includes lifetime crash/damage replacement if the damaged during “intended use.”

Ypuh
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: Leerdam, Netherlands

by Ypuh

When all things equal, I would go for the Enve's as well for the warranty as mentioned.

I do own the 2019 Zipp 404 Firecrests. This is essentially the 'old' NSW rim minus the Cognition hubs, tubeless and impress logo's. I do love the rims, mainly for it's looks, ridefeel and ShowStopper brake track. Didn't find the 3 features mentioned worth an extra €1.000,- and wouldn't hesitate to buy the 404's again if the price was right.

Why I ended up with Zipp: the Enve's were probably too wide for my frame and found a good deal on a new set of 404's. Also like the Zipp looks a bit more.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 5435
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Ypuh wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:32 pm
When all things equal, I would go for the Enve's as well for the warranty as mentioned.
Zipp’s warranty matches ENVE’s as of April 2020.

StevenH72
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:17 pm

by StevenH72

I have both a set of Enve 3.4 SES (2019) and Zipp 808NSW (2019).

The cognition hub is fantastic. Incredbly quiet (which makes sense) and definitely feels like it holds on to speed better when freewheeling.

My Enve's are built on to Tune hubs so I can't comment on Enve hubs, but as far as brake tracks are concerned the Enve's are noticably better in my opinion (although, I wonder how much of that is to do with additional rotational inertia on the Zipps).

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 5435
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

StevenH72 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:53 am
I have both a set of Enve 3.4 SES (2019) and Zipp 808NSW (2019).

The cognition hub is fantastic. Incredbly quiet (which makes sense) and definitely feels like it holds on to speed better when freewheeling.

My Enve's are built on to Tune hubs so I can't comment on Enve hubs, but as far as brake tracks are concerned the Enve's are noticably better in my opinion (although, I wonder how much of that is to do with additional rotational inertia on the Zipps).

There’s two examples of placebo in this post.

The drag difference between freehub designs is minimal...It’s certainly not something you’d be able to detect without precise measuring equipment.

Wheel weight hardly matters in braking. You are slowing down a system that is overwhelmingly made up of your body weight.

by Weenie


StevenH72
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:17 pm

by StevenH72

Meh, fair enough.

Feel free to have my thoughts stricken from the record.

You can however take from my post that Enve's brake tracks are superior.

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