which wheels to get, (50-60mm)

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
chiltonp
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:48 pm

by chiltonp

Looking at getting a deeper set of carbon clinshers for me TCR SL. I currently already have a set of 30mm clinchers that are someweight light for climbing so this would be for flatter group rides and race. Probably looking at the used market around $1,000 USD.

Currently looking at three sets, hubs would be a toss up as I think they all run on DT 240 internals.

Bontrager Aelous 5 TLR, these appear to be the lightest of the three sets at 1440 grams but not sure how accurate Trek's weights are.

Reynolds mixed Aero 46/Aero 58 set. As a set these are probably in the mid 1500 gram range but I don't like the aestheitcs as much and not sure if the older aero wheel sets were tubeless compatible.

DT Swiss ARC 1400 62mm, these are prbably the heaviest at 1633 gram but also the most aero and they would look the best on the bike but I have not seen any real world reviews.

by Weenie


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TonyM
Posts: 3255
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cat ... iew-51687/

https://granfondo-cycling.com/review-dt ... 100-dicut/

https://aerogeeks.com/2018/01/05/dt-swi ... 80-review/

https://www.roadrevolution18.dtswiss.com/aero/



I have the DT swiss ARC 1100 Dicut 48 DB and love them.
The 62mm are definitely more aero.
I would be surprised if someone sell their DT ARC .... and new they are quite expensive....


alcatraz
Posts: 2202
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Choose a rim that suits the tire width your weight/road surface requires.

Generally speaking deeper is faster, shallower slower. The front wheel has the largest potential to save watts. It's also the most crosswind sensitive.

Pick the dimensions wisely. Don't focus so much on marketing hype.

BagelMaster
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:13 pm

by BagelMaster

For the most part, I think that you can be fairly agnostic with wheels. Name-brand wheels are going to typically be very reliable and high quality, plus have bling, but lesser known brands and some direct from Asia brands are considered to become almost as reliable.

The one thing other than depth you should carefully consider is outer width. I believe you can negate some of the benefit of deeper rims if you're tire is wider than the width of the rim. If you want to run 25mm tires, you should most likely have a 25mm wide rim.

If anything, I'd probably just go with LightBicycle or Prime wheels. Both are affordable and have modern wider options.

Bogan
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 pm
Location: Boganville, Australia

by Bogan

I have some Lightbicycle rims built on White T11 hubs and DT Swiss Aerolite spokes. The wheels are great. Came in under 1500g s. They roll really well and don't get knocked around in cross winds. They are 45 deep. I am about 100kgs and these wheels have no issue with the weight. All up they probably cost around $AUD1300 or $1400. To get the equivalent in a name brand would be $2500-$3000.

BTW. These are and have been set-up tubeless.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk



MAMIL? Never. O.F.I.L. yeh! (Old F**ker in Lycra)

SloRacer
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:41 am

by SloRacer

Check out Hambini's aero testing. Should provide you with some good information on aero drag by wheels from different manufacturers. Light bicycle performed well given the cost is low. Flo cycling wheels were the poorest performers.
https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bicyc ... fastest/

sfo423
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:12 pm
Location: San Francisco

by sfo423

Wasn’t the rule of thumb 110% or something similar when looking at (optimal) rim and tire width ?
BagelMaster wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:15 am

The one thing other than depth you should carefully consider is outer width. I believe you can negate some of the benefit of deeper rims if you're tire is wider than the width of the rim. If you want to run 25mm tires, you should most likely have a 25mm wide rim.

AJS914
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

You hear about the 105% rule. I've broken that rule on my new 50mm Farsports wheels. I installed 25mm GP4000s on 25mm wide Farsports. I haven't measured them but they should be around 27mm wide. Visually when you look at the profile of the wheel/tire they appear to be very close to the 25mm rim.

They are definitely much faster than my old Campagnolo Eurus wheels and I have no handling issues on windy days. Overall, they are very easy to handle in the wind. Much easier than I thought as these are my first deep set of wheels.

I supposed I could gain back a few watts with a narrower tire but it's not holding me back.
Last edited by AJS914 on Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BagelMaster
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:13 pm

by BagelMaster

sfo423 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:32 pm
Wasn’t the rule of thumb 110% or something similar when looking at (optimal) rim and tire width ?
BagelMaster wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:15 am

The one thing other than depth you should carefully consider is outer width. I believe you can negate some of the benefit of deeper rims if you're tire is wider than the width of the rim. If you want to run 25mm tires, you should most likely have a 25mm wide rim.
You're right, I forgot about that! I think it's 105-110% like you and AJS914 have said.

AJS914
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

In case anyone wants to geek out on the 105% rule, I found this link:

https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/part-5-t ... rodynamics

joshatsilca
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

by joshatsilca

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:30 pm
You hear about the 105% rule. I've broken that rule on my new 50mm Farsports wheels. I installed 25mm GP4000s on 25mm wide Farsports. I haven't measured them but they should be around 27mm wide. Visually when you look at the profile of the wheel/tire they appear to be very close to the 25mm rim.

They are definitely much faster than my old Campagnolo Eurus wheels and I have no handling issues on windy days. Overall, they are very easy to handle in the wind. Much easier than I thought as these are my first deep set of wheels.

I supposed I could gain back a few watts with a narrower tire but it's not holding me back.
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:47 pm
In case anyone wants to geek out on the 105% rule, I found this link:

https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/part-5-t ... rodynamics
Happy to answer if anybody has specific questions on this topic..

As for the comment above about handling, the interesting aspect of the rule of 105% is that when the tire is the proper size on a sufficiently aero rim, the handling becomes more of a challenge.. the drag reduction comes from keeping the airflow attached to the rim so that it creates a sideways/forward lift component. When you break the rule of 105, the airflow cannot hang onto the leeward side of the rim past very low yaw and the separated airflow has lower side force than the lift you would have in the attached condition.. so the true measure of handling comes when you have fully attached flow at the lowest possible drag configuration.
Josh
Owner of SILCA
Check out my Tech Blog: https://blog.silca.cc
Stories of the Tech behind the Tech: https://marginalgainspodcast.cc

sfo423
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:12 pm
Location: San Francisco

by sfo423

To get good handling, do you go over or under the 105% for the tire?

Assume a 50mm rim at 27.4 width and a GP 5000 tubeless tire. I recall the 105% putting the optimal rim for a 25mm tire at 26.25.

I'd give up some drag for handling anyday.


As for the comment above about handling, the interesting aspect of the rule of 105% is that when the tire is the proper size on a sufficiently aero rim, the handling becomes more of a challenge.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4163
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I took it to mean that with tires that are too wide, the net sideforces acting on a deep wheel will be greater...adversely affecting “handling.” With a properly sized tire/rim pairing, drag is reduced, detachment on the leeward side is minimized, and the wheel should feel more stable in the wind. Hopefully Josh checks in and clarifies.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Rim a bit wider than the tyre for lower aero drag.

by Weenie


deepakvrao
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:44 am

by deepakvrao

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:14 pm
I took it to mean that with tires that are too wide, the net sideforces acting on a deep wheel will be greater...adversely affecting “handling.” With a properly sized tire/rim pairing, drag is reduced, detachment on the leeward side is minimized, and the wheel should feel more stable in the wind. Hopefully Josh checks in and clarifies.
I thought that he meant that when tyre and rim are well matched, the reason for the lower drag also leads to the poorer handling?

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