Tubular ageing

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

I'm not sure the comparing of aging wine, or other alcohols, is really an appropriate analogy. We could compare beef jerky as well, that's nice and tough, and doesn't puncture easily either.

But since we're talking about bicycle tires as opposed to digestible food products, here's a nicely aged bicycle tire... never actually ridden however... and "hand made" no less...
Image

Image

I've yet to see any manufacturer actually stating anywhere, anything along the lines of... "for best results, age at least 6 months to a year", or anything to that effect. All in fun... and if you feel better aging your tubulars so be it. Perhaps it "hardens" them up a bit, makes them more puncture proof?... I don't know, but if they harden up, then that's the opposite of supple, and since I've never had an issue with punctures on my tubulars, I prefer using them before they harden up, and certainly before they get to the stage of the tire I show in that picture.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


mattr
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by mattr

Calnago wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:31 pm
I've yet to see any manufacturer actually stating anywhere, anything along the lines of... "for best results, age at least 6 months to a year", or anything to that effect.
Most tubs that might possibly need aging, you'd be expected to know this anyway. Like expensive wines don't come with instructions to decant, or guides to serving temperature or not to shake them to "mix in the goodness". You're expected to know. Call it a cost of entry. :wink:
Don't think high end tubs even come with pressure ratings on the side either yet. You're expected to know, or have a mechanic who knows. :D
Calnago wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:31 pm
All in fun... and if you feel better aging your tubulars so be it. Perhaps it "hardens" them up a bit, makes them more puncture proof?... I don't know, but if they harden up, then that's the opposite of supple,
Hard and supple are not opposites. Unless you aren't a native english speaker. Soft is the opposite of hard, and soft rubber disintegrates, like a pencil eraser, or incompletely vulcanised rubber. Rigid or inflexible is the opposite of supple. And you aren't "hardening" either you are toughening, which is a different property again. So aging (in theory) gives you a supple structure, with a tough tread structure. Someone with a bigger book of rubber chemistry would be able to fill in the details, i only have a guide book (metaphorically speaking).
Calnago wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:31 pm
and since I've never had an issue with punctures on my tubulars, I prefer using them before they harden up, and certainly before they get to the stage of the tire I show in that picture.
TBH, as i said before, most of the tubs that most people buy, outside of the elite/professional ranks don't need any sort of aging. Much like that fortezza, which while it may be handmade, isn't made of anything that needs any sort of special care. Polycotton casing, semi synthetic tread and so on. Much like most tubs on the market. Even the fairly high end ones (G-one etc).

And that one looks like it's been in direct sunlight for a couple of years. Which isn't good for any tyre, even those horrific solid plastic things.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

:) ... I really like the "You're just supposed to know" rationale. That's equivalent to asking a kid why he did that or why things are the way they are and he responds with "Just cuz" as if that's a valid answer to most any question in the world. And how is someone just "supposed to know"? Somewhere along the way there must have been someone who asked "But why, oh Tubular Sensei... why must we age these things so long?" Sensei (all flustered): "Get off my lawn kid... you're just supposed to know these things".
I like to know the whys... I dunno... call me curious.

Hard vs soft, Supple vs rigid.... now we're really getting into semantics. Just subsitute "rigid" wherever I said "hard" if you like and we're good. Call it "tough" if you like as well. I'd rather ride soft and supple, not rigid and tough. Unless I'm fourwheelin'.... Ford Tough.

That fortezza that I pictured never saw a day of bright sunlight or even a day of use. It just dried up with age. Just pumped it up a bit so I could show the cracking. I guess I'd like to know which tires do "need" to be aged, because there isn't a manufacturer I know of that says that, and really... I just don't know, and until today I didn't know that I'm just "supposed to know" that stuff.

Tires today have all kinds of "special compounds" in them if we are to believe the manufacturers. Conti has "Black Chili". Specialized has Gripton, Vittoria has Graphene, marketing names for sure, but behind the names are certainly different formulations being used today than 30 years ago.... etc., etc., Then some have puncture belts as well. But no one is saying to age them first, except when the occastional thread like this on some forum pops up.

There was the great deep cavern video that made the rounds years ago showing the discovery of hidden hutchinsons in a cool dark place then finally discovered as if they were gold. They played up the aging thing and I think sold them for some exorbitant amount like $400/tire or something. Ha... if any of you want some really old tubulars, give me a call as I think I have some and I will give you a deal at $200/tire. Really. Call me. Bargain!
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

shimmeD
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by shimmeD

Hahahaha Cal. Age them but not that as long (as in your pic)! How long? Why are you asking? It's just something someone in the know knows.
BTW I'm quite enjoying the Competition (in my possession for 6, 7 years now) that I've put a Vittiria latex tube in. Alas it's not going to last much longer.
Less is more.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ha... truth is most of the tires in my possession are, just by virtue of having been sitting around for awhile, "aged". But I'd have no problem slapping on a brand new set, which is the case for these Specialized S-Works Turbo Allround 2's that I just got and have heard such great things about so want to try them before using up the tires hanging around in my wine cellar. They can rot in hell for all I care... I wanna try these babies. And I wanna try them now. Lol
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

PokojniToza
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by PokojniToza

Before you buy the tubular, a garcon brings one and you get to sniff it and take a little bite, then slowly roll it in your mouth and then spit it up. A tubular and a bucket for the monsier. (I am a bit drunk on properly aged wine, do excuse my banter:)

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Mattr, we both said tub manufacturers age the tubs to a degree as they will store them for a time before shipping and then they get stored in shops. I was referring to that. I don't specifically age them.

Most tub users will have a stock of tubs. I must have 30 or so personal stock. It may take a few years to get round to using some of them but properly stored the tyre is not cracked and is still supple. UV and ozone damage tyres. Keep them away from that and the tyres will be fine.

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

The only reason my tires are aged is because when they are onsale I buy a few at a time and my theory is that if you have more than a couple tires hanging in the shop you will rarely get a flat but if you have only one or none the flats will come fast and furious :lol: Its just a theory. And also if you are going away on a cycling vacation definitely bring more then one spare. I usually bring three just in case.
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2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
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shimmeD
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by shimmeD

Reverse psychology, Murphy's Law, not tempting fate? Sounds like superstition, but not saying you shouldn't keep doing it. At least you do practise tubs ageing! :)
I've come to the conclusion that most of us age our tubs, thanks everyone esp those who argued so strongly, and you amused me the most at that.
Less is more.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

If againg applies and it's an if it applies to dugast and fmb tyres which sit at there respectives factories for a while and then on shop shelves so this is likely a moot argument.

mattr
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by mattr

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:08 am
my theory is that if you have more than a couple tires hanging in the shop you will rarely get a flat but if you have only one or none the flats will come fast and furious :lol: Its just a theory.
It's not a theory.

Donate your spare tube to a friend after not having a puncture for 3 years, you WILL have a flat before you get round to putting one back in your tool roll.

Run out of tubes in your home stock.
It'll be like popping bubble wrap.......

I have probably 50 spare inner tubes at home for this very reason (and 4 spare tubs at the moment)

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LouisN
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by LouisN

Some of you guys will be happy to read the following.
I wrote to François Marie, owner at FMB tubular tires.
Here (in english, translated from french, so sorry if grammar isn't perfect ;) ) :

Question
Message: Hello,
I would like to have more details, coming from the craftsmen themselves, knowledgeable about the conditioning and aging of the casings. Is it really true that artisanal casings such as FMB, due to their components (natural rubber, etc. ..) must be conditioned, ie stretched on the rim, then "aged", that is to say that tread rubber should slightly dry in a cool and wet environment, and provide better performance and protection? Thank you for your information, it is appreciated.
Answer
Good evening,
It's an old habit that we all had ..... years ago to let the tubulars age to reduce the risk of punctures (too fresh) and increase the yield.
This is no longer relevant. The rubber compound loses its primary qualities over time (24 months). The parameters are established with a new compound. There are anti aging products that slow down the phenomenon but can not stop it. The compound may be more resistant to punctures but will be less effective in performance or grip.
The carcasses lose solvents in the first 3 months and then stabilize.
After 3 months, it is no longer necessary to leave your casings at rest to hope for improvement.
At your service ,
Well sporting,
François MARIE
FMB
Louis :)

beanbiken
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by beanbiken

Thanks for that L....... my tires will probably be stuffed by the time [if not already] I get to install them, need to ride more :oops:

BB
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Coffee & carbon

mattr
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by mattr

That's good to see actually. Cheers for contacting him to check the current state of play.

by Weenie


PokojniToza
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by PokojniToza

That was an interesting read. Thanks mate.

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