Wheel choice conundrum

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
nachetetm
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm

by nachetetm

otoman wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:21 am
Nefarious86 wrote:Roval SLX24 disc?

20mm internal, 1515g and all DT components?
I was scrolling to the bottom to recommend this exact wheelset.

I have used for a winter running 28mm Schalbe Pro Ones. They are just flawless and a raging bargain. I can’t think of much else to say. I’d buy them again.
What is their advantage over a custom built wheelset using DT 350 hubs? DT 421 rims with DT350 hubs would be probaly cheaper, giving you many more options for a better build, including number of spokes, alloy or brass nipples, spoke gauge and importantly, the ability to choose a builder you know/trust. If following the DT route (and their waterproof ability is out of doubt, definitely a good choice) I think handbuilt makes more sense.

by Weenie


User avatar
otoman
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

Yes they do have the lip on the inner edge of the bead shelf.
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

User avatar
otoman
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:25 pm
Location: Nashville

by otoman

nachetetm wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:06 am
otoman wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:21 am
Nefarious86 wrote:Roval SLX24 disc?

20mm internal, 1515g and all DT components?
I was scrolling to the bottom to recommend this exact wheelset.

I have used for a winter running 28mm Schalbe Pro Ones. They are just flawless and a raging bargain. I can’t think of much else to say. I’d buy them again.
What is their advantage over a custom built wheelset using DT 350 hubs? DT 421 rims with DT350 hubs would be probaly cheaper, giving you many more options for a better build, including number of spokes, alloy or brass nipples, spoke gauge and importantly, the ability to choose a builder you know/trust. If following the DT route (and their waterproof ability is out of doubt, definitely a good choice) I think handbuilt makes more sense.
FWIW, I’m a big custom wheel build fan, have many sets over the years. For me, I just don’t mind trashing a factory built set as opposed to a the custom wheel builder option. Just a mental thing I guess. That being said, the hubs are still turning beautifully despite many rain rides and lots of washings. Also for me, this wheelset was cheaper than what I could source all-in with rotors etc. from trusted builders.
Age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill

kofsw4
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:28 pm

by kofsw4

I've been running a set of slx24 discs for a winter and a half and been really impressed with them. Opened them up after about 6000km, many of them in filthy conditions, at the end of last winter and found the factory grease still intact which I thought was very impressive.

One advantage of these over handbuilt is the ability to get a second hand set as I think they come with some higher end specialized bikes from the factory. For me that made them even more of a bargain.

Also, weight of mine were 1525g not like some other wheels I've had that end up 100g over claimed.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Continuing to debate the wheel thing. I am trying to figure out if the following sets will be strong enough. In particular the rear under acceration and the front under hard braking. I currently have Industry nine i25 disc. And while they are excellent wheels, I find rear winds up a bit when I climb and the front winds up when I brake. Even sitting stationary on the bike, locking the front brake and rocking forward it is amazing how much the front wheel winds up. (Spoke tension is even and appropriately high). I suspect that the 24 spoke, 2:1 build just can't give me the solid feel I want.

The three candidates
1. Roval SLX 24 disc (excellent recommendation) but will it be the same as the Industry Nine - same spoke pattern, perhaps the rim is stiffer which could make the difference. 1520 grams

2. Light Bicycle Falcon wheelset. The rim is their WR36C02. I would go with DT 350, and 28 spokes front and rear (do I want straight pull or J-bend?) Still not a lot of spokes but a deeper stiffer rim should help. Best option from an Aero perspective. 1550 grams. Can I get away with the Novatec Disc hub they offer? - it would save some weight but I don't want problems for the sake of a few grams.

3. Fulcrum Racing Zero disc. Only 21 spokes but if the Shamal Ultra is anything to go by these should be rock solid. Solid sealed rim so no rim tape. Worst aero and heaviest at 1590 grams, but these are Italian grams so who really knows how much these weigh.

All of these can be had for about a grand CDN. Is there some better option I have overlooked?

The reality is that these wheels will live under mudguards. Bought a new Cannodale Synapse frameset for the sole reason that it was the road bike with mudguard mounts and the greatest tire clearance (Focus Paralane is better but it has some negatives IMO - my wife has one) - I finished the build (Sram Red) and my G-One Speeds at nearly 32 mm fit nicely under the full length SKS mudguards - a big win there.

All that's left is deciding on wheels.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

alcatraz
Posts: 2103
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I wouldn't spend too much money on a winter wheelset because of corrosion,gravel,water. Neither would I pick proprietary designs.

I'd stick with standard components to keep it easily serviceable. Hubs/spokes/nipples.

Pick any carbon rim and get it laced. Go wide to get a modern feel. Pick corrosion resisting components, external brass nipples, no steel washers.

The first long term problem you'll likely encounter is water ingress so a hub that is good against that would be a good idea.

Dtswiss 240s hubs should be pretty good for the job. Not very heavy either. Only bad thing I've heard is the requirement of one special tool to replace bearings.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

All good advice alcatraz. By that reasoning the LightBicycle option is the most appealing. But nothing here seems to corrode. We rarely get salt on the roads. I normally shy away from anything proprietary, except Campy wheels of course.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

alcatraz
Posts: 2103
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

If you have mild winters then you don't need to worry much I guess.

Winter in my mind is slushy snowy muddy roads with frequent downpour and salted/graveled roads. More debris accumulated on the bike between washes.

If we're just talking about rain and no salt/snow/gravel, then any wheel will do fine. Personally I like the looks of roval wheels. :) Don't know how well they hold up but can't be bad.

Modern wheelsets match the tire width. If you intend to run 28mm wide tires then look at 28-30mm rims. If you're ok with 26mm then stick with 26-27mm rims and so on. This way you'll get that premium look and minimal aero loss, saves you a couple of watts while preserving good rolling resistance. :)

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Yeah, no salty, slushy roads. We get some grimy splatter, sometimes a fair bit on group rides but I have a wash station so bike gets a gentle hose down if I have been out on wet roads.

I'll be running tires that will measure between 28 and 30mm. Can't fit more under the mudguards. That means a carbon rim if I intend to match tire width.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

nachetetm
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:54 pm

by nachetetm

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:05 pm
Continuing to debate the wheel thing. I am trying to figure out if the following sets will be strong enough. In particular the rear under acceration and the front under hard braking. I currently have Industry nine i25 disc. And while they are excellent wheels, I find rear winds up a bit when I climb and the front winds up when I brake. Even sitting stationary on the bike, locking the front brake and rocking forward it is amazing how much the front wheel winds up. (Spoke tension is even and appropriately high). I suspect that the 24 spoke, 2:1 build just can't give me the solid feel I want.

The three candidates
1. Roval SLX 24 disc (excellent recommendation) but will it be the same as the Industry Nine - same spoke pattern, perhaps the rim is stiffer which could make the difference. 1520 grams

2. Light Bicycle Falcon wheelset. The rim is their WR36C02. I would go with DT 350, and 28 spokes front and rear (do I want straight pull or J-bend?) Still not a lot of spokes but a deeper stiffer rim should help. Best option from an Aero perspective. 1550 grams. Can I get away with the Novatec Disc hub they offer? - it would save some weight but I don't want problems for the sake of a few grams.

3. Fulcrum Racing Zero disc. Only 21 spokes but if the Shamal Ultra is anything to go by these should be rock solid. Solid sealed rim so no rim tape. Worst aero and heaviest at 1590 grams, but these are Italian grams so who really knows how much these weigh.

All of these can be had for about a grand CDN. Is there some better option I have overlooked?

The reality is that these wheels will live under mudguards. Bought a new Cannodale Synapse frameset for the sole reason that it was the road bike with mudguard mounts and the greatest tire clearance (Focus Paralane is better but it has some negatives IMO - my wife has one) - I finished the build (Sram Red) and my G-One Speeds at nearly 32 mm fit nicely under the full length SKS mudguards - a big win there.

All that's left is deciding on wheels.
Your second option looks best to me. I always heard than disc wheelsets need at least 28 spokes; 24 are only for very lightweight riders, and you seem to confirm it with your current wheels. The Fulcrum are probably better as dry summer tires: i experienced water ingress after just a single wet ride with two different Campy/Fulcrum wheelsets, a Racing 7 CX and a Record handbuilt. The CX wheels have double seal, so no water in the body but the freehub is the regular one-> Bearings got rough one day that the rain caught me quite far from home. Regarding the Record handbuilt, I used it this summer during a week trip. Two days of substantial rain where enough to get water in the body->new bearings. My wheelbuilder prevented me about their water abilities, so it is not just my perception. Servicing them showed me why: their sealing is not really "substantial", they most likely favor low drag, not protection. In the meantime, the chinese hubs in my commuter are impervious to rain. My brother used that bike during our week trip, was under the same rain conditions and they didn't suffer at all. I comute with them all the year and I never needed to open them, and they are probably my smoothest running wheelset. Which takes me to the Novatec hubs. As Novatec seems to make dozens of models, be sure the ones you get have good protection. Being a rain wheelset, I don't think is worth trading a few grams for less water protection. Servicing hubs is fun but searching and waiting for the parts and not riding the wheels is not.

The rim part is the easy thing: I think most of them are good enough. Those lightbicycle look a bit "heavy" though, considering their relatively low profile and that they are carbon. I don't see their advantage over an alu rim. Their aero advantage over the modern alu rims is probably minimal too. But I'm sure they are good and will look great.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

nachetetm wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:22 am
The Fulcrum are probably better as dry summer tires: i experienced water ingress after just a single wet ride with two different Campy/Fulcrum wheelsets, a Racing 7 CX and a Record handbuilt. The CX wheels have double seal, so no water in the body but the freehub is the regular one-> Bearings got rough one day that the rain caught me quite far from home. Regarding the Record handbuilt, I used it this summer during a week trip. Two days of substantial rain where enough to get water in the body->new bearings. My wheelbuilder prevented me about their water abilities, so it is not just my perception. Servicing them showed me why: their sealing is not really "substantial", they most likely favor low drag, not protection.
Thanks, that's really good first hand information and something that I had heard very little about. It would be nice to hear from Campy about this. It's not just the seals, but also the hub shell design - it is possible that the hub on the Racing Zero Disc would be better protected but that is impossible to know at this point.
nachetetm wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:22 am
In the meantime, the chinese hubs in my commuter are impervious to rain. My brother used that bike during our week trip, was under the same rain conditions and they didn't suffer at all. I comute with them all the year and I never needed to open them, and they are probably my smoothest running wheelset. Which takes me to the Novatec hubs. As Novatec seems to make dozens of models, be sure the ones you get have good protection. Being a rain wheelset, I don't think is worth trading a few grams for less water protection. Servicing hubs is fun but searching and waiting for the parts and not riding the wheels is not.
Well if the Novatec are as good as the chinese hubs on your commuter that would be great. But again, it's hard to get good info. The exact model is Novatec D411SB / D412SB. I think this is a relatively new disc brake hub for them. I am really tempted - they are quite light. Online you see a lot of postiive reviews of later Novotect products and while there is a bit of positive chatter about this model, there is nothing definitive as far as how it stands up to water.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Narrowed down to two choices:

1. Easton EA90 SL Disc - the new one with the vault hub. Seemed a better option than the other top alloy choices (Roval SLX 24, Bontrager Paradigm Elite, etc.)
WHEEL WEIGHT: 1537g
RIM DEPTH: 27mm
INTERNAL RIM WIDTH: 19.5mm
EXTERNAL RIM WIDTH: 24mm
SPOKE PATTERN: 24 / 3x
DISC ROTOR MOUNT: CENTER LOCK DISC
FRONT/REAR HUB: EASTON VAULT – CENTERLOCK
AXLE CONFIGURATIONS: 9x100QR,12x100, 15x100 / 10X135QR, 12x142

2. LightBicycle
Hub:DT350 (Maybe 240)
Spokes: CX Ray 28/28
Rim: either WR36C02 (36 deep) or RG922 (only 28 deep but asymmetric).

Will the asymmetric RG922 rim, despite its shallowness still build a strong enough wheel? Or is the deeper but non-asymmetric WR36C02 the way to go? Or does the design of the Easton product an strong enough wheel with just 24 spokes?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post