Proper latex innertube mounting

[pdlpsher1]

Funny to read people claim they have never had a problem with latex but advocating others to avoid a certain brand. If there’s no issues to be had why avoid a certain brand? And I see threads on latex brand preferences and everyone seems to have their opinion on the best brand. I have a feeling that people do experience issues with latex and hence the experiments with various brands. Latex users don’t tell you the truth. That’s the way I see it.

Alcatraz is the only honest latex user. I know about the explosive nature of latex because it happened to me on a descent. And this is the reason why I stopped using latex. Latex is safe to use in a tubular tire because the tubular tire has a perfectly round cross section. The latex can expand with uniformity in a tubular tire. In a clincher the latex can stretch more in some places and over time this leads to tube failures without anything puncturing the tire. Many people attribute mysterious tube failures (one without a puncture in the tire) as mounting error. No. They don’t understand the differences in materials between latex and butyl. You can have a perfectly mounted latex tube in a clincher fail with the bike sitting stationary. People don’t understand why something like this can happen so they attribute the problem to the user or the latex manufacturer. You can do a simple latex tube test. Without a tire pump up a latex tube. And you’ll see a balloon forming somewhere and the rest of the tube stays small. Do the same test on a butyl tube and the tube will expand equally along the tube.

This is also why Conti uses latex in their racing tubulars but they don’t sell a latex tube by itself to the consumer. Conti cares a lot about your safety and they have a good corporate conscience. Vittoria, Challenge, and Michelin, not so much.


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[osw000]

That’s the way I know about the explosive nature of latex because it happened to me on a descent. And this is the reason why I stopped using latex.

Carbon rims maybe?


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[pdlpsher1]

That’s the way I know about the explosive nature of latex because it happened to me on a descent. And this is the reason why I stopped using latex.

Carbon rims maybe?

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Nope. It was a Mavic Open Pro. I also get explosive flats while riding on the flats, so heat has nothing to do with the failures.

[TheKaiser]

Funny to read people claim they have never had a problem with latex but advocating others to avoid a certain brand. If there’s no issues to be had why avoid a certain brand? And I see threads on latex brand preferences and everyone seems to have their opinion on the best brand. I have a feeling that people do experience issues with latex and hence the experiments with various brands. Latex users don’t tell you the truth. That’s the way I see it.

Alcatraz is the only honest latex user. I know about the explosive nature of latex because it happened to me on a descent. And this is the reason why I stopped using latex. Latex is safe to use in a tubular tire because the tubular tire has a perfectly round cross section. The latex can expand with uniformity in a tubular tire. In a clincher the latex can stretch more in some places and over time this leads to tube failures without anything puncturing the tire. Many people attribute mysterious tube failures (one without a puncture in the tire) as mounting error. No. They don’t understand the differences in materials between latex and butyl. You can have a perfectly mounted latex tube in a clincher fail with the bike sitting stationary. People don’t understand why something like this can happen so they attribute the problem to the user or the latex manufacturer. You can do a simple latex tube test. Without a tire pump up a latex tube. And you’ll see a balloon forming somewhere and the rest of the tube stays small. Do the same test on a butyl tube and the tube will expand equally along the tube.

This is also why Conti uses latex in their racing tubulars but they don’t sell a latex tube by itself to the consumer. Conti cares a lot about your safety and they have a good corporate conscience. Vittoria, Challenge, and Michelin, not so much.


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I think there is a lot of truth to this. I haven't used latex in over 15yrs, so maybe someone is making them more reliable now, but my previous experiences (with various brands) were that I always had inexplicable failures. With a butyl tube flat, if you are methodical and observant, you can typically indentify the cause (i.e. "Oh, this little wire worked its way through my tire and caused this little pinhole in the tube" or "That pothole bottomed my rim on the pavement and caused these little slits in the tube via pinch"). With latex, everything would be groovy for months, but when a flat occurred, it was sudden, and when I pulled the tube out it looked like it was the victim of some horrible accident or serial murderer.

I was going to add the additional tip (as if any more were needed) to the OP's instructions, to inflate the tire somewhat, until the beads seated, but the tire isn't so firm that you can't displace the beads with your thumb (maybe 5-10psi, but depends on the tire rim fit). Then go around the full circumferance of the tire, on both sides, pushing the beads away from the rim and checking to ensure the tube is not trapped between tire/rim. Once that was confirmed, I would then fully deflate the tube, in order to ensure that if it wasn't evenly stretched/placed, or was twisted, inside the tire initially, due to being inserted with the tire unseated, it could now relax to a neutral position inside the fully seated tire before being inflated again and put into use. Even still, I had inexplicable blowouts. It could be that additional deflation cycle caused a problem rather than fixing one, but I still do this with butyl tubes without issue. If the "bubbling" aspect of latex is to blame for unexplained failures, then that would explain why my deflation cycle was ineffective in preventing unequal stress/tension on the tube.

Oh, and I also had a latex tube fail at the bond between tube body and valve core, which I have seen happen with butyl too, but only on other people's bikes, never on my own. Could have been random, but still was discouraging.

Long story short, if I was to try latex in a clincher again, I would want to ensure that the tube was very closely sized to the tire, to prevent any sort of stress related to a thin area of the tube bubbling. On the plus side, I have also, in a Vittoria tubular with latex tube at 100+ psi, seen a thumbtack fully embeded in the tire, which did not cause a flat, either before or after the tack was removed. That example was the promise of latex (besides reduced rolling resistance) in a nutshell, but I haven't ever seen that replicated in a clincher.

[TonyM]

I use latex tubes for more than 25 years now and I never had problems....

You "just" have to:
- mount them corretly (like the regular tubes)
- use some talcum
- replace the tube when you replace the tire
- use high quality rims/ wheels
- use correctly your brakes downhill (and preferably be less than 85 kg)

However for safety reasons I used regular tubes and aluminum rims whenever I was biking in the Alps and I had many long and steep descents etc...

If this is too much for you, then use regular tubes and that's it.....(I also gave up using tubulars because of the work involved)

[MikeD]

I used Challenge latex tubes because they don't have a seam. I took them out and they were all stretched and crinkled looking. Didn't like the looks of that so I didn't reuse them and am sticking to light butyl. Not worth it, in my opinion. Didn't notice any difference in ride quality when I used them and had to inflate tires every day I used them.

[F45]

I had the occasional latex tube failure, usually from the tube rubbing on something inside the tire like the rim strip or valve core opening. What fixed all that was using tubeless tape on tubeless profile rims. Now everything is smooth inside and the tire sitting on the bead shelf means no channel between the bottom of the tire bead and the rim bed for the latex tube to squish into.

Vredestein brand had the worst qc I've tried, also the most expensive. But they would explode on initial pump up, not on the road.

Michelin, Vittoria, and Challenge give me no problems.

What I really like about latex is that when punctured, it doesn't lose air as fast as butyl. Sometimes the hole will squeeze shut with 10-20psi so you can make a safe stop. Then I throw in a butyl tube, CO2, and I'm rolling in like 90 seconds.

[F45]

Funny to read people claim they have never had a problem with latex but advocating others to avoid a certain brand. If there’s no issues to be had why avoid a certain brand? And I see threads on latex brand preferences and everyone seems to have their opinion on the best brand. I have a feeling that people do experience issues with latex and hence the experiments with various brands. Latex users don’t tell you the truth. That’s the way I see it.

Alcatraz is the only honest latex user. I know about the explosive nature of latex because it happened to me on a descent. And this is the reason why I stopped using latex. Latex is safe to use in a tubular tire because the tubular tire has a perfectly round cross section. The latex can expand with uniformity in a tubular tire. In a clincher the latex can stretch more in some places and over time this leads to tube failures without anything puncturing the tire. Many people attribute mysterious tube failures (one without a puncture in the tire) as mounting error. No. They don’t understand the differences in materials between latex and butyl. You can have a perfectly mounted latex tube in a clincher fail with the bike sitting stationary. People don’t understand why something like this can happen so they attribute the problem to the user or the latex manufacturer. You can do a simple latex tube test. Without a tire pump up a latex tube. And you’ll see a balloon forming somewhere and the rest of the tube stays small. Do the same test on a butyl tube and the tube will expand equally along the tube.

This is also why Conti uses latex in their racing tubulars but they don’t sell a latex tube by itself to the consumer. Conti cares a lot about your safety and they have a good corporate conscience. Vittoria, Challenge, and Michelin, not so much.

Your complaints are valid, but there are things the latex user can do to avoid all that. First, use the tubeless profile rim with smooth tubeless tape. It is slick and seamless.

Second, do not buy a small latex tube and expect it to fill a larger tire like a butyl tube would because it will herniate as you have pointed out. If you have a 28mm tire do not put a Vittoria 19-24mm latex tube in it. Take the tube spec seriously! Put the 25-28mm sized tube in it.

Third, the super light latex tubes should be avoided. The thicker ones are more durable and the ride quality is still good.

This last comment about other companies not having a corporate conscience is laughable.

[PrimO]

I've been using latex tubes for the last 5 years with one puncture in that time caused by a sharp rock/stone on the road which cut the side wall of the tyre. I'm using Vittoria tubes and cant fault them and will continue to use them. I have them in 40mm carbon clinchers and never had any issues on descents or anywhere else. I also use them on my winter bike which see poor condition roads and fast mountain descents however the bike has disc brakes and so no overheating concerns.

I usally put the tubes in a plastic bag and pour some baby talc into the bag and give it a good shake to coat the tube properly, before partially inflating and mounting on the rim.

[nafaiutb]

Conti cares a lot about your safety and they have a good corporate conscience. Vittoria, Challenge, and Michelin, not so much.

You’re either unbelievably naive or getting paid.

[wheelbuilder]

Wow. Latex has been problem free for me for 3 years or so. I even re-use them from time to time if my stock is getting low and I'm changing tires. The feel and weight is so worth the fussy installation. I haven't had a puncture in close to 2 years..... 120-140 miles a week. Aeolus D3 carbon clinchers, S Works Turbo tires the whole time. To each their own though, for sure. I agree with poster above who suggests inflating tire to 10-20 psi and going all the way around both sides pushing bead in to check for tube under bead.........then inflate to normal pressure. You will catch any pinched edges and the tube won't puncture at those low psi's. I use Vittoria and Bontrager brands.

[Kurets]

I use latex 100% in my training, and tubs with latex inners for racing. Never had any issues except a valve stem broke loose after 2&1/2 seasons on the same tube. I also patch them with regular patches or pieces of an old tube. Patches hold for the life of the tube.

I really don't see where the issues are, unless you are very ham-fisted in installation.

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