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Why tubular?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:17 pm
by RocketRacing
The weight weenie in me wants tubular... as it can save a solid 200 or more grams off a wheelset.

But all of the bike rolling resistance data says that a good tubeless or even clincher, is faster. Easier, more convenient.

Pros still seem to run tubular. Fear of change, tradition, lighter weight where it counts, better tolerance to flats (not as dangerous or dramatic).

People talk of the smooth ride of tubulars. We know about impedance losses of pressures too high (higher pressure not = faster).

So why tubular? Are they less likely to fall off the rim at lower pressures given the power outputs and cornering stressors the pros put on them?

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:25 pm
by Mockenrue
I think a large part of it is the fact that tubs can be ridden on while flat until the wheel can be changed.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:25 pm
by Weenie

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:43 pm
by bm0p700f
So you can ride Ambrosio nemesis rims. Lighter wheels too. Also you get to carry a spare tub. Tubs do handle a bit differently to the equivalent clincher.

I sometimes do MTB racing on them.

There is a ritual to tubs. The gluing, packing the spare... That's alot of the appeal I think.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:40 am
by pdlpsher1
The pros ride it because they don't need to carry a spare tire.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:50 pm
by angrylegs
Tubulars are lighter and accelerate better - at least to my feel on them when I was racing. They also corner better. Honestly, I raise an eyebrow at rolling resistance discussion too. I felt much, much faster on the equivalent width tubular (same manufacturer, same rims basically) than I ever did on clinchers. Cannot compare to tubeless, as I haven't ridden those on the road. Don't know if I ever will. Pita to change on the side of the road and messy as hell. Would much prefer tubular even if performance was equal. That said, I usually train on clinchers, but would always choose tubular to race if possible. Ymmv.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:36 pm
by Mep
The data does not show that all clinchers have lower crr than tubulars. It does in some cases, as with any other two tires. Look at the Vittoria Corsa line as an example of a tubular with good rolling resistance. Tubeless tires do have the lowest crr but I'm not interested, not until the tech becomes more manageable/less messy.

Imho tubulars perform better than clinchers in almost every way, except for convenience. Recently there have been questions raised on the aerodynamics of tires and I was wondering if tubulars would perform worse than clinchers. But so far I haven't seen anything concrete suggesting that is the case.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm
by bm0p700f
Its still a ritual. All the talk of CRR and feel is cover for that. People who use tubs just like using tubs, taking the time and care to fit them, feeling like they are tyre conerseurs.... I am that guy. Lets not dress it up with boring talk of Crr data. The problem is the tubs with nice feel dont last me too long.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:45 pm
by RocketRacing
bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm
Its still a ritual. All the talk of CRR and feel is cover for that. People who use tubs just like using tubs, taking the time and care to fit them, feeling like they are tyre conerseurs.... I am that guy. Lets not dress it up with boring talk of Crr data. The problem is the tubs with nice feel dont last me too long.
Love the brutal honesty. Haha.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:21 am
by beanbiken
bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:26 pm
Its still a ritual. All the talk of CRR and feel is cover for that. People who use tubs just like using tubs, taking the time and care to fit them, feeling like they are tyre conerseurs.... I am that guy. Lets not dress it up with boring talk of Crr data. The problem is the tubs with nice feel don't last me too long.
This probably puts my thoughts into words, thank you :thumbup: The only difference is that tubs last me a long time as I don't do big KM's, I'm generally a weekend cyclist only. At least until I retire from the 9 to5 so to say. I also enjoy hiding out in my shed with a beer and tinkering with the bike, my meditation :D

BB

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:10 am
by robertbb
+1.

When I'm not riding them, cranking up some tunes and tinkering with my bikes is meditation. Maintaining a set of tubular wheels in the quiver is part of the practice.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:32 am
by kgibbo1868
I really like tubs, I enjoy gluing them on, I like the handeling/ride and the reduced weight of my wheels over clinchers as well. I really dont worry about the weight of a spare as it is static weight. Rotational weight is more of a concern to me. I really dont understand the tubless thing, it doesnt make any sence at all...... :-(

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:24 am
by RocketRacing
The crazy impressive low rolling resistance of the go5000 tubless is why. And the corsa speed tubeless. The two fastest tires for rolling resistance. The 5000 even beats out the corsa speed tubular.... and has everyday lifespan and puncture protection (i.e. not a thin race day only tire).

With the pro ranks, i think it is a combo of trying to keep the wheels as light as possible given the total weight restrictions... and being able to better manage a flat.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:33 am
by Calnago
RocketRacing wrote:...
With the pro ranks, i think it is a combo of trying to keep the wheels as light as possible given the total weight restrictions... and being able to better manage a flat.
All secondary to the ride quality and handling characteristics. And safety a close second... the other stuff you mention being a distant consideration in comparison.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:00 am
by AJS914
And pros have cars full of wheels following them around as well.

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:00 am
by Weenie

Re: Why tubular?

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:22 am
by alcatraz
They aren't much slower and provide safety.

Overheat protection
Flat protection

Tubular makes a stiffer wheel when comparing with a similar weight clincher. Maybe that matters too but I'm guessing it's secondary.

/a