Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

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kgibbo1868
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:36 pm

by kgibbo1868

I would rate AX very high, I have had a few of thier products and was VERY impressed with the AX 24 wheelset that I had. Yes, my rear wheel broke when I was involved in a crash, but before that I rode those wheels thousands of KM's through ALL sorts of terrain and found them very solid. I am 78 kgs and they were plenty stiff as well. I found the braking very good with swiss stop black prince pads as well (not great in the rain).

If I was looking to splash out on a dream wheelset it would be AX 38 tubular laced to extralite hubs running veloflex 25 tyres.
Pain is my friend!

by Weenie


Mep
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 4:11 pm

by Mep

imunwired wrote:
Mep wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:10 pm
hannawald wrote:Few people here have them and say superlatives about them, great braking, stiff, light and responsive etc. But these are initial impressions, when you are in love period, hard to say what they compare them to etc. But yeah, very tempting considering their weight. I am just reluctant believing that at 30mm depth they are of similar stiffness and aero to 35mm Boras that are among best in its class not far from 50mm Boras.
Indeed, the lack of long term reviews has also prevented me from acquiring one. But they are very intriguing considering their weight.
I will add this last bit in case this is helpful. I had an email exchange with Schmolke about general sentiments related to their past QC issues. I have no relationship with the company, but just genuinely interested in their product in comparison to Boras.

I am copying and pasting an excerpt from their response:

"...but I will say that the carbon rims have been a steep learning curve for us over the last 24 months. After 25 years of making carbon products this is something we did not quite expect. The difference in production method using the lacing machine is quite substantial and yes we did have some quality issues especially with the tubular 30 mm rims and to a lesser extent with some of the 45mm tubular rims up to January 2018. But please allow me to point out that all "defects" were of the sort where no actual product failure occured and we replaced all rims at no cost.

Fast forward to today we can say with full confidence that we have learned our lessons. The rims are slightly heavier now which improves the strength considerably and we are seeing a lot less warranty issues.

The breaking performance of our rims is very good and the feedback from our riders is very positive. [ ... ] But my guess would be that our rims break performance is same or better as long as the recommended Swissstop Black Prince breakpads are used."

Total confirmed weight:
TLO30 tubular with Tune Mig45/Mig150 hubs: 970 grams, 105kg max rider weight
TLO45 tubular with Tune Mig45/Mag150 hubs: 1200g (530g front, 670 rear), max rider weight 105kg
Thank you, that's helpful. That's an increase of 140g in the TLO 45 which brings it in line with other wheels in that depth. I guess 1200g is more or less the limit at 45mm given the range of technologies available today.

kgibbo1868
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:36 pm

by kgibbo1868

The AX 38s are quite a bit lighter:

Weight (+/- 5 %) 965 g/set
Rims ax 38T, 285 g/piece
Rim material Full Carbon
Tire type Tubular
Brake type Rim brake
Rim depth 38 mm
Rim width 26 mm
Hubs Extralite CyberFront SP / CyberRear SP
Freehub Shimano/Sram, Campagnolo
Spokes DT Swiss Aerolite, black
Nipples DT Swiss Pro Lock hidden, internal
Spoke tension front: 100 kgf, rear driveside: 140 kgf
Spoke count (f/r) 20 / 24
Rider weight limit 100 kg
Pain is my friend!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

That AX rim is a bit like my BORG38T rim. They build into sub 1000g wheels too if Extralite hubs are used.

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kavitator
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by kavitator

kgibbo1868 wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:58 am
The AX 38s are quite a bit lighter:

Weight (+/- 5 %) 965 g/set
Rims ax 38T, 285 g/piece
Rim material Full Carbon
Tire type Tubular
Brake type Rim brake
Rim depth 38 mm
Rim width 26 mm
Hubs Extralite CyberFront SP / CyberRear SP
Freehub Shimano/Sram, Campagnolo
Spokes DT Swiss Aerolite, black
Nipples DT Swiss Pro Lock hidden, internal
Spoke tension front: 100 kgf, rear driveside: 140 kgf
Spoke count (f/r) 20 / 24
Rider weight limit 100 kg
100kg rider will break or melt them- real world 75kg rider

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Mockenrue
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by Mockenrue

A wheel manufacturer who can't spell 'brake' correctly. :shock:

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Even a 90 kg rider is stands a real chance of cracking a flange in a pothole impact.

Kavitor is right about the real world weight limit. Probably around 80kg but it's rider dependent.

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

Throw on some Berd spokes, cut 50% from spoke weight from Aerolites/CX/Rays.


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kgt
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by kgt

I would never suggest a 1000gr wheelset to a >90kg rider. Lightweights and Corima MCC are excepted because of their construction and stiffness.

markyboy
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by markyboy

I will have my input,i have owned lots of wheelsets and keep going back to bora,imo i think they are just fantastic i will not use anything else.
Colnago master with campagnolo super record 12
Pinarello f8 with dura ace di2
Eddy merckx 69 ultegra disc winter bike ultegra r8000

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C36
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by C36

Corima MCC, better stiffness and weight than lightweight with better aero.
I never tested the braking under the rain so can’t compare with more recent productions but their stiffness is really what make them totally unique.


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RyanH
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by RyanH

C36 wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:18 pm
Corima MCC, better stiffness and weight than lightweight with better aero.
I never tested the braking under the rain so can’t compare with more recent productions but their stiffness is really what make them totally unique.


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Is this from first hand experience with both? Another forum member cyclespeed did an indepth review between the two (and CCU) and said the Lightweights were better. A local guy we ride with was demoing a pair of MCC and he said he preferred his Boras, didn't see enough of a reason to get the MCC.

RyanH
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by RyanH

imunwired wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:07 pm
Total confirmed weight:
TLO30 tubular with Tune Mig45/Mig150 hubs: 970 grams, 105kg max rider weight
TLO45 tubular with Tune Mig45/Mag150 hubs: 1200g (530g front, 670 rear), max rider weight 105kg
1200g is pretty disappointing given the hubs. Bora 50s are 1226g using beefy, fast rolling hubs, 5mm greater depth and none of the QC issues.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I have Ax Premium version of the 38T. I've had them a few years. But since i contacted FWB and asked which hubs in need of least maintenance i bought Tune version.
Also checked with RAR. Mine are Mig/Mag 45/150.
They also say Tune is better talking lesser need of maintenance.
My set is 1010 grams.
No problems except one. Chain dropped between chain and cassette, so i have them in for new spokes.
I rode previous gen of Mavic CCU also. One thing, CCU has a sense of snap i can't find with other wheels.
I sold them because i really wanted a wider rim.
If it's one wheelset i really would like now, it's the 2019 Cosmic Ultimate UST.
The bearings and hub design is updated, the rims are wider and overall the wheels are revised.
Mavic have alot of knowledge and money behind them. My guess is that the new Ultimate is a real super wheelset.
It would be my Nr 1 option.
I doubt any rims + standard (more or less) spokes could make that difference to what a CCU or Lightweight would.
Minus for LW is still the rim profile and the quite narrow width.

It doesn't matter if Ax is lighter than CCU, CCU had more snap.
However, they run very close to being harsh.
T38 rides nicely. Ride feel is very good.

I am around 85Kgs and that is no problem with AX.

One thing none of you talk of is the wheelsets impact in respect to what bike you ride.
If you ride a soft feeling bike, wheels prone to feels harsh on a stiff bike would most likely work superb on a smooth riding bike.
While of super stiff bike, probably wouldn't be that nice to ride with super stiff wheels.
Also, you forgot the stiffest wheelset.... Bike Ahead Biturbo.
These are only for disc brakes though1
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


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kgt
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by kgt

wheelsONfire wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:30 pm
It doesn't matter if Ax is lighter than CCU, CCU had more snap.
This is related to stiffness which, in the case of CCU, is much higher than AX.

BTW new Ultimate CCU is 40mm deep and 25mm wide and weights 1250
New Meilenstein 24 is 48mm deep 24mm wide and weights 1165
IMHO LWs still have the edge.

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