Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
hannawald
Posts: 513
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Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Thanks for your time you took with me.
Seems I will stick to Boras for the moment..

by Weenie


imunwired
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:52 am

by imunwired

What about Schmolke TLO30 or TLO45?

I’ve been hunting around for wheels as well and came across these in my search.

hannawald
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Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

They were one of my favourites, laced to carbon ti hubs, which receives great comments. But i have read somewhere that these wheels are not in the same league as Enve, Zipps..i think it was Ronald Kuba who said that but not sure.

RyanH
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by RyanH

In tubular version, Zipp braking is mediocre and the 404s which I had were downright frightening in even mild cross winds. I borrowed Denavelo's TLO30 for a couple weeks and any ride quality differences between them and the Bora 35s were nearly indiscernable. With that being said, two major wheelbuilders on here have stated they have major QC issues. Denavelo cracked his 30s and had to warranty, so I think they're unfortunately a pass on that end.

refthimos
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

alcatraz wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:21 pm
No need to go crazy with Systemsix 32mm rims which would be less aero for a lighter rider.
I don't think the aerodynamics of wheels vary with rider weight.
EVO | 5.37kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
TCR Advanced SL Disc | 7.35kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8 | Alto Disc
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

imunwired
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:52 am

by imunwired

Re Schmolke - Unless I am misreading their website, the weight of these TLO35 wheel-sets is less than 1000g tubular with a max rider weight of 105kg. I can tell you that I am very tempted.

Prior poster said that these were inferior to Zipps, Enves, etc. Any idea why?

I have a set of ZIPP404s and a set of Chinese carbon (light bicycle) wheels laced to DT240s. I do think the quality of the Zipps is better, but it is VERY hard to ignore the lightness of the Light Bicycle carbon wheels. By choice, I’d ride the light bicycle wheels in a race or up a hill.

So, I’m looking for lightness with some depth to the rims. The Bora One 35 wheels look good but they also seem to be a 30% weight difference compared to the TLOs.

alcatraz
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by alcatraz

hannawald wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:18 pm
Thanks for your time you took with me.
Seems I will stick to Boras for the moment..
Bora 35s are 24mm wide. That's quite skinny. :roll: Beautiful wheels though.
refthimos wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:10 am
alcatraz wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:21 pm
No need to go crazy with Systemsix 32mm rims which would be less aero for a lighter rider.
I don't think the aerodynamics of wheels vary with rider weight.
I'm just repeating what I've read. I'm light so I don't have super wide rims that I can say are worse or better.

The theory I've read goes like this. Lets say a rider is so light that the optimum rolling resistance pressure of ~85-95 psi can be obtained with both a 28mm wide and a 32mm wide rim with appropriately sized tires (~26mm real width tire for the 28mm rim, ~30mm real width tire for the 32mm rim = aero sizing) then the narrower rim would consume less watts as a total for that rider. If roads are especially nasty the optimal pressure is lower and the wider rims become more beneficial, but as road quality improves the wider rims lose out as the optimal pressure increases. This assumes obviously that you are at a speed where aero plays a part so >25km/h.

Many people ride narrower rims than what is optimal for them so they have for many years benefitted from always going wider. There is a point where benefits diminish and thats what this is trying to address.

I'm not an expert but it sound logical to me. What do you think? :)

Mep
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by Mep

RyanH wrote:In tubular version, Zipp braking is mediocre and the 404s which I had were downright frightening in even mild cross winds. I borrowed Denavelo's TLO30 for a couple weeks and any ride quality differences between them and the Bora 35s were nearly indiscernable. With that being said, two major wheelbuilders on here have stated they have major QC issues. Denavelo cracked his 30s and had to warranty, so I think they're unfortunately a pass on that end.
When you say ride quality, are you also including crosswind stability and braking?

If so, it sounds like Schmolke may have a real winner on their hands if they can sort out their QC.

hannawald
Posts: 513
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Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Few people here have them and say superlatives about them, great braking, stiff, light and responsive etc. But these are initial impressions, when you are in love period, hard to say what they compare them to etc. But yeah, very tempting considering their weight. I am just reluctant believing that at 30mm depth they are of similar stiffness and aero to 35mm Boras that are among best in its class not far from 50mm Boras.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

Just wait for 60mm Bora WTO. Best of both worlds https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... p?t=151324
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

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kgt
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by kgt

60mm Bora WTO will be far from lightweight.

Mep
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by Mep

hannawald wrote:Few people here have them and say superlatives about them, great braking, stiff, light and responsive etc. But these are initial impressions, when you are in love period, hard to say what they compare them to etc. But yeah, very tempting considering their weight. I am just reluctant believing that at 30mm depth they are of similar stiffness and aero to 35mm Boras that are among best in its class not far from 50mm Boras.
Indeed, the lack of long term reviews has also prevented me from acquiring one. But they are very intriguing considering their weight.

CLEAR
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:20 pm

by CLEAR

If it was my last wheel purchase, Bora and LW. Im not fast to notice any aero gain blah blah... they both been durable as long as ive been using them. In fact as memory serves, the LW has more miles and not a single trouble, 25k km or there about only changed bearings at 15k just because it was on sale and says ceramicspeed on the box, cant tell the gain. And Bora ultra at 15k has had one broken spoke on my own mistake crashing into a parked car (door opened suddenly). If they break, then i will buy Bora and LW again.
Others such as HED Stingers 3, 4, 6 then Mavic CCU '12, RZR '13, LEW pro-vt1 '05, Campy shamal '03 and '10, AX HRT24 '12, 3T mercurio ltd '12 all ok but somehow retired either sold or just stored now.

imunwired
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:52 am

by imunwired

Mep wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:10 pm
hannawald wrote:Few people here have them and say superlatives about them, great braking, stiff, light and responsive etc. But these are initial impressions, when you are in love period, hard to say what they compare them to etc. But yeah, very tempting considering their weight. I am just reluctant believing that at 30mm depth they are of similar stiffness and aero to 35mm Boras that are among best in its class not far from 50mm Boras.
Indeed, the lack of long term reviews has also prevented me from acquiring one. But they are very intriguing considering their weight.
I will add this last bit in case this is helpful. I had an email exchange with Schmolke about general sentiments related to their past QC issues. I have no relationship with the company, but just genuinely interested in their product in comparison to Boras.

I am copying and pasting an excerpt from their response:

"...but I will say that the carbon rims have been a steep learning curve for us over the last 24 months. After 25 years of making carbon products this is something we did not quite expect. The difference in production method using the lacing machine is quite substantial and yes we did have some quality issues especially with the tubular 30 mm rims and to a lesser extent with some of the 45mm tubular rims up to January 2018. But please allow me to point out that all "defects" were of the sort where no actual product failure occured and we replaced all rims at no cost.

Fast forward to today we can say with full confidence that we have learned our lessons. The rims are slightly heavier now which improves the strength considerably and we are seeing a lot less warranty issues.

The breaking performance of our rims is very good and the feedback from our riders is very positive. [ ... ] But my guess would be that our rims break performance is same or better as long as the recommended Swissstop Black Prince breakpads are used."

Total confirmed weight:
TLO30 tubular with Tune Mig45/Mig150 hubs: 970 grams, 105kg max rider weight
TLO45 tubular with Tune Mig45/Mag150 hubs: 1200g (530g front, 670 rear), max rider weight 105kg

by Weenie


RyanH
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by RyanH

There's also WR Compositi and Ax 38s, which both come in under 300g per rim for over 30mm deep but both of those have even less feedback.

Ax has a unfortunate history of catastrophic product failures so I wasn't ever willing to pull the trigger on the 38s. People have gone to the hospital because of their products at one time.

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