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Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:23 pm
by Calnago
Imaking20 wrote:Enve 4.5 does not handle wind particularly well. Nor brake particularly well. Having owned 2 different generations of them.

Bora 35s are a wheel that's just "good" at pretty much everything - also great at nothing.
Hmmm... as for carbon wheels I don’t know, I’d say I haven’t come across any wheel with better braking than a Bora. And build quality is great, with easily replaceable, thin stainless steel spokes. And best hubs/bearings on the market. Nothing else rolls as well. So, I’d have to say they’re pretty great, and I doubt you’ll find anything that either brakes better or rolls better. So for me, at any price, these are my go to wheels. And the 35’s are a particularly good “all rounder”. And they’re only 1166 grams, in the tubular version. And if we’re talking about the “best”, that pretty much means tubular if you consider ride quality as part of the equation.

Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:23 pm
by Weenie

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:31 pm
by Imaking20
Well, I've got 2 sets of wheels in the garage currently that definitely break better - and arguably a third set. The build quality of custom, hand built also seems pretty great. Not touching the antiquated "campy hubs are best on the market" bit though..

I've spent a fair bit of time on Bora 35. They're a very nice wheel to ride and they give confidence in their workmanlike reliability - but I prefer more exciting traits to describe a "great" wheelsets.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:41 pm
by Calnago
Well now I’m just curious as to what those better braking rims are. Do tell.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:16 pm
by Imaking20
In order:
FSE 35
Aeolus XXX 6
Aero 46 (this one being the "arguably" - because it's VERY close)

Ryan and I have debated over and over about these kinds of things and I've gathered that he prefers a very linear braking response/performance - whereas I prefer a strong initiial bite. For me, this is based on a motorcycle racing background and liking to make small, one finger adjustments at high speeds (often just a little adjustment with the rear brake). Neither of these approaches is wrong (except Ryan's ;) ) and you could say it just comes down to which style you prefer. If you're the type that prefers the super linear response - I'd say there are A LOT of wheels in close competition to the Bora (LW, CCU, Reynolds) and maybe Boras are just a touch above. I owned each of those wheels (Bora, LW, CCU, Reynolds) right around the same time and even swapped out my EE for Campy dual pivot brakes to see what I was leaving on the table - I don't believe the Bora has better absolute braking power than any of the other 3. This is a big part of why I then sold the LW and CCU - but held onto the Reynolds instead of Bora because the 46 have a standout trait in their crosswind stability.

If you prefer a stronger bite (and not a god-awful braking noise) - I haven't ridden a wheel that can compete with FSE. I've even owned 2 sets of alloy wheels since I've owned the FSE (Nemesis and R-Sys SLR) just to keep for "oh sh*t braking" wheels and after commuting on all of them - I kept only the FSE as I don't believe there's enough difference in dry braking to make it worth switching pads.


One more thing about the Bora 35 - it's a little misleading to say they weigh 1166g. You're only hitting that weight on an alloy freehub - with the steel freehub, you're looking at 1235-1250g.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:25 pm
by Calnago
Ok, I just wanted to know what you think is better. As for the weight, that was actual measured weight (no modifications) on my Bora Ultra 35’s.
And I don’t know why you used the word “antiquated” as to my describing the campy hub/bearings as being the best on the market. I’ll stand by that statement all day long.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:06 am
by hannawald
What about Corima 47 MMC S+ tubulars? French Lightweights for better price?:) I have read a thread about them vs Lightweights. They should be both good..in theory they are very light, very stiff, 47mm profile, so they should be both aero and good climbing, true universal set of wheels?
On the other hand not that comfortable and narrow for 25mm tubulars...what does that mean in total? Stick with 35mm Boras?:) I would like to retain their agility in hills but maintain speed on flats...is that possible?..
Corimas should brake well with their pads.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:03 pm
by LionelB
hannawald wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:06 am

Corimas should brake well with their pads.
Well.... No.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:23 pm
by hannawald
That is what I have read in couple of reviews...there are not many but those few say that braking is great...

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:27 pm
by RyanH
They Bora 35s were tested by Tour Magazine to be only about 5 watts slower than 404s at 45kph, so if you're having trouble on the flats, it's not the wheels.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:30 pm
by LionelB
hannawald wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:23 pm
That is what I have read in couple of reviews...there are not many but those few say that braking is great...
I had Corimas, the breaking was the worse. The cork pads were deadly in the wet. It was slighly better with campy red pads but nowhere near a Bora.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:07 pm
by hannawald
RyanH: thanks, you saved me a lot of money:)
Honestly I can´t say I am slower, it is just a feeling and what i see on my garmin but it´s not backed by powermeter data.. i was also ill for couple of months and i have changed whole bike..it climbs really well..on my popular route i don´t need small front chainring which i used on some hills before and i ride hills more happily..but on flats i don´t reach same high speed on long windy roads (i may have had bad luck and didn´t have good wind on couple of attemps but wouldn´t say so) and also the feeling is that my previous 1400g wheelset - MCFK 55 tubeless was slower to accelerate but kept the speed easier..riding them was like riding on rails, very stabile....i know it´s very different to Bora 35 tubulars:) so i am trying to clarify my confused feelings and was thinking whether Corimas with 47mm profile and lighter weight may not be best of both worlds..

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:47 am
by alcatraz
Best wheelset depends on your avg speed on an avg ride.

If it's <25km/h then weight trumps aero.

If it's >35 then aero trumps weight.

The same wheelset wont be best in everything.

How much do you weigh? I ask because it determines the ideal rim width for the tire width that best suits you.

What's your avg power? Are you a low cadence man/sprinter/steep incline climber? That can tell you if you would benefit from reinforced wheels.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:41 am
by hannawald
I know my equipment is miles ahead of my capability..it is just that i like tuning my bike..
My typical ride is 80km/800m with average speed about 28km/h on a solo ride. My cadence is about 75 on straight road but drops to 60 going up. I am 184cm/80kg, 39 years old with about 6000km a year (i manage to ride during weekends). Nothing overhelming:) i ride 25mm tyres. I was just thinking whether some jewelerly like used Lightweights might fit my Specialissima more than my Boras. And i have seen Corimas for 1700GBP so thought about them as cheaper Lightweights..they would also get my bike to 5,7 kgs. I know that with my weight 900g wheelset is not a good idea, was searching among stiff wheelsets..

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:33 pm
by kgt
IME the braking of Corima wheels with Corima pads is excellent in the dry. Not that great in the wet. The braking of LW wheels with LW pads is very good in both dry and wet.
The Corima wheels are of the highest quality but IMHO LW will look better on your Bianchi Specialissima, they look more classy-ic while Corima look more futuristic.

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:33 pm
by Weenie

Re: Best lightweight wheelset no matter money

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:21 pm
by alcatraz
Ok so at 80kg 25c is about right. Wouldn't hurt to get the kind that grows to 26-27mm. (Especially if you like low pressures and maybe have some bumpy roads around there. That means no italian tires that are sometimes narrower than what they specify, even on wider rims.)

In which case I'd recommend something around 28-30mm wide rimwise.

For the speed you are fine at or below 50mm. If you aspire to go faster maybe go with something around 60mm and try and break 30km/h average and put such wheels where they belong. :)

75 with dips down to 60 is a fairly low cadence so you'll probably need something that can deal with torsional force a bit better.

Bontrager xxx 4
Bora ultra 35 (too narrow)
Zipp 303
Lightweights (too narrow)

You need the stiffness from the bora/lightweights but I wouldn't skimp on the rim width. No need to go crazy with Systemsix 32mm rims which would be less aero for a lighter rider. But 25mm rims for a medium weight rider is a bit too narrow too unless you're in a velodrome. Thats why I wouldn't go lightweight or bora, although they do bring the stiffness your cadence and weight would benefit from.

Just my take on the issue.