Alloy clincher (custom) wheels, 1150-1350g

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
User avatar
vejnemojnen
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

StanK wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:51 pm
What I think? Nothing :mrgreen: That's the point.
When it comes to chosing new wheels I have no experience at all. I have no grounding to base opinion. Hence whole this topic. Need some good guidance.
I have budget and I know, more or less, what I want for that. Even don't know if it's posible. If not, ok, I will stay with Ksyriums.

And that website is in German...
I overusing Google translate already :D All I see is very light wheels and very low prices. It rings "Too good to be true".

Btw. that Strada link (wheels) got my full attention now. Especially Stilleto. And especially when I was read more than few opinions that this is actually pretty stiff wheel, but also very, very light. I'm tempted right now.
Slowbuild is reputable builder, though the name actually refers to lacing-delivery times. Sometimes it's half-a-year due to limited staff& number of orders.

They, of course, speak English, and I'd say they worth a try. :thumbup:

User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

vejnemojnen wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:25 am
Slowbuild is reputable builder, though the name actually refers to lacing-delivery times. Sometimes it's half-a-year due to limited staff& number of orders.

They, of course, speak English, and I'd say they worth a try. :thumbup:
Half-a-year?! :shock: :roll: No, thanks. I'm not in a hurry, but I would like have all changes set (would be more than few of them, almost each with some problems, as it seems so far) over winter, which means end of february at latest.

As no one, so far, has any objection regarding Spada wheels (if do, please tell word or two) I would look options there. If reviews and personal opinions doesn't lie, that would be exactly what I'm looking for. Some possible issue with that wheels is posibility of water coming in bearings and do some nasty stuff there. As I don't ride in wet condition (and always looking wether report before ride, so no surprises) and cleaning bike with minimum soaked cloth, I'm good with that.

by Weenie


Svetty
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

Stilettos only 14mm internal width. No thanks!

User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

My Ksyriums are 15mm internal width and I'm ok with that. I think 1mm wouldn't make much of a difference, although Michelin Lithion2 23mm tire (that I had it) is wider than Endurance V2 (now on bike) of the same width. So, worst case scenario (if I decide to buy Stilleto) would be changing tires to 25mm.
And web-site for Stilleto says "Clincher from 23 to 28 mm" which is also fine by me even if I know I would never put tire wider that 25mm on my bike.

Oxygeno is 17mm internal width, but had weight limit of 85kg for rider, and with 77kg I would be somewhat close. So, I think Stilleto is safer option regarding durability. I hope so. :)

User avatar
F45
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

I never had a problem on my "comically narrow" XR200 rims. 20/24 with Sapim Laser and Bitex hubs they were exactly 1300g. And also comically cheap.

Haven't used them in a while because I like the road feel of Dura Ace hubs even if it gives up some grams. oh well.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4921
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

F45 you may not have had problems with that wheelset but you may also be lighter than the OP. I did one 20F/24R set once and it was horrible to build. Flexable wheels always are.

the stilleto wheel is another narrow medium(ish) depth rim. I'm not sure they should be described as stiff.

also Mavic OP UST rims (24mm wide and varibable 22mm to 25mm deep) on extralite hubs would be even lighter ~1230g vs 1280g with Carbon Ti hubs. thats with 28 spoke rear. Such a wheel will be stiffer than the other light weight off the shelf options mentioned so far.

User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:21 am
... the stilleto wheel is another narrow medium(ish) depth rim. I'm not sure they should be described as stiff...
Well, that's what I was find on more than few places on the web. And Strada stuff told me that Stilleto would be stiffer than my Ksyriums, regarding some tests.

Unfortunatelly, whole that "stiffness" debate is like some kind of terra incognita for me, because I can't try any other wheelset in that weight range prior to buy. 10-20km on them and I would know is it ok for me, or is it worse to ride than Ksyriums. I can only buy them and hope for best.

Is there any place in EU where you can buy wheels and can return in 2 weeks time, but slightly used? I know it can be that I ask too much, but I know for sure that in some shops in Croatia you can try bike "around the block" prior to buy. Even just that, few kilometers, would be helpfull.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4921
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

I dont think any wheel builder is willing to build you wheels which costs time and money to see if you prefer them over your kryseriums. What you want is not an off the shelf wheelset and not cheap to build either. customers also dont buy even slightly used wheels unless the price is slashed. i.e for the wheel builder it is too high a risk.

You are also then not trusting the wheel builder not a great start is it.

User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

Yeah, I understand that position completely. But in this case Strada Sttileto is not exactly a custom build wheels, it's their model. Ok, you can pick colour of nipples and two type of decals, but that's it.

Yes, I want wheels, but wheel builder must tell me what I can expect of that wheel. And when I ask something specific, I want specific answer. After wheels is made and I bought it - it's too late.

But never mind. We exchanged some emails and I don't think would be anything of it.
For my liking, mentioning of possible slight unbalance (and vibration) of wheels because of different types of tyres and valves, is simply too much (?). And all that because wheel is so light.

And when they can't say explicitely that wheels won't had absolute any play in bearings ... I don't need that. I need some kind of fit-and-forget wheels (ok, some slight truing from time to time is normal), just like any wheels I have so far, with no play at all.
If that light wheels can't be made fit-and-forget and trouble free in start, ok ... I have learned something, at least.

Btw. I will buy full price wheel that is used for 20km, no problem. If it's like new and If I can try it. I'm not that picky in that regards. But I'm picky when It comes to what I feel under my hands, or legs or, for example, If i hear some circulary repeating clicks ... anywhere on bike.

I take off two pair of pedals in last 12 months because of that. For someone else that issue may not be issue at all. We are all slightly different and it's also a lot of money (at least for me). I do not want regret buying because I did not ask for some things and some possible problems that would later driving me crazy.

Phill P
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:10 am
Location: Nambucca, NSW, Australia
Contact:

by Phill P

If you want weight savings but still a decent wheels we can build you a set of 30mm carbon rims front and rear for about 1400g and 35mm rims front and rear for about 1455. You can go 18/21 spokes or the more conventional 20/24. 18mm internal and matches nicely externally with 23 or 25mm tires. $900-$1k full price. Hubs are better than in Mavic wheels as well.

When you go lighter unless there is some improved engeering technology involved (think carbon layups and profiles etc) then you have to give something up to achieve that weight. This is weight weenies but nobody wants to ride a bike that is a noodle or really lacks durability. Light weight low profile rims lack stiffness in all directions and hence make the spokes work more - so the the wheel is less stiff and fails faster. For these light weight rims you need more spokes, which reduces aero even more on top of the un aero rims.
So winde your trade off back a bit - 25 to 30ish mm rims, the right number of spokes, and solid hubs. In which case you are not going to save much weight or gain much performance over the wheels you have. Wear them out then get something custom built to suit YOUR needs.

Oh a comment on hubs - so many of these cheap light weight wheels also use cheap light weight hubs. The axles are tiny, and the hub shells/flanages not stiff/strong. You will get better durability and performance out of a 300g set of hubs with decent axles/bearings/shell construction than a cheap set of 250g hubs.

Chasing grams - specially on a budget - does not result in faster wheels
Technical Director at www.TUFFcycle.com

User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

Thanks for your input and offer, Phil.
But as I already said, there is no point for me to change wheels for cca. 100g lighter.

User avatar
vejnemojnen
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:11 pm

by vejnemojnen

IMHO, there is benefit in the suggestions Phill. Higher profile (35-38-45mm) results in better windcheating& also can be laced stiffer than shallow rims.

Aero and stiffness beats pure weight. And cut weight from where it matters, ie.: rim, nipple, tyres-tubes. Not from hubs or marginally lighter spokes.

I'd listen to his advice... Has merit. :smartass:

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4921
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Light aero and stiff are also posibble but that would cost.

I have a set of 45mm deep carbon clichers that are wide and tubeless ready. Weight 1280g. I weight more than you too and I have no cenernsa bout them. The rims are 465g each. the hubs are extralite which weigh nothing but somehow are not unreliable or prone to noises. Cost if I was building them for a customer they would be over £1500. The Mavic OP/carbon build for comparision is under £900.

Stank To give you an example the Open pro/carbon ti set would be 1305g -1330g (correction). The actual weight depends on the weight of the rims. Some open pro rims are coming in a bit over 420g now (the extrusion dies must be wearing).
Carbon Ti hubs have bearing preload which must be set when fitting the wheels. Set it properly and lock the adjuster in place and there is no play. If any does develop as the bearings wear then simply re adjust. This is not a frequent thing though.

As for latteral stiffness they should be as least as stiff as the kryseriums. To be honest it does depend on the model. The latest incarnations are stiffer than the older narrower versions.

clicking wheels well is not that a warranty? Wheels should not click. I know I build lots that dont but then I use a couple of hubs in my wheels to avoid problems down the line. Same goes with rims.

User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

vejnemojnen wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:33 pm
... Higher profile (35-38-45mm) results in better windcheating...
Am I missed something big so far? Deeper wheels are less prone to problems regarding side wind? I must confess, never before heard statement like that.
I read that some deep wheels are better than other, regarding side wind, but that they are better than shallow wheels in that regards ... never.

by Weenie


User avatar
StanK
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:10 am
Location: Croatia

by StanK

bm0p700f wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:10 pm
... clicking wheels well is not that a warranty? Wheels should not click. I know I build lots that dont but then I use a couple of hubs in my wheels to avoid problems down the line. Same goes with rims.
I mentioned clicking regarding pedals, not the wheels. :D

I don't know, guys, I really appreciate yout input, but that Strada Stiletto model is out there for many years, slightly changing in design over some periods of time and I think can't be that everybody lies about them. Or that Strada paying all those "opinions" and reviews. As I'm understand it's a really small company, I don't think they have budget for that.
Maybe I'm just naive, who knows.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post