Alloy clincher (custom) wheels, 1150-1350g

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Nejmann
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by Nejmann

What you is after is a pair of mavic r-sys. Get a newish used pair. I would carbon if it was me.

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StanK
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by StanK

nachetetm wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:10 am
I don't see the point of changing the Mavic for the Fulcrum/Campy. The weight savings will be unapreciable and I don't think a person under 80 kgs benefits from the extra stiffness of the Shamal/Racing Zero. I think bm0p700f suggested the best option. The new Mavics seem to be the lightest reliable modern alu rim, and paired with good lightweight hubs like Carbon Ti and X-Rays probably will make an excellent wheelset while being very light.

Another option, lighter but probably less sturdy would be this:

https://www.spadabike.com/en-en/16/oxygeno/


My preference however would be the Mavic/Cabon Ti option. If Mavic ends releasing the Exalith version even better.
That Spada looks very interesting. And some other models on their web site as well. But, in this topic is already many times mentioned that something below 1400g would be ... probably not satisfying. And this Oxygeno is 1230g. I'm little puzzled now. Ok, you stated "probably less sturdy", but ... how much "less sturdy"? :| :mrgreen:

I'm really torn, actually, for wanting significally lighter wheels, but I'm of course willing to listen experienced people, not to thrown cash just for weight saving and end up with signifficaly softer wheels.

Btw. wheel building is not option for me.
Last edited by StanK on Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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StanK
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by StanK

Nejmann wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:03 pm
What you is after is a pair of mavic r-sys. Get a newish used pair. I would carbon if it was me.
Yeah, I agree. Matter of fact, there is one pair on sale, not very far from my home. But ...

Problem with this wheels is that (as I understood) when you go to trueing the wheel, you can't just take spoke wrench and in 2-3 minutes or so you are done (mostly). No, you have to release spoke end from inside hub (take out some parts frome there), and even then I'm not sure how to handle it properly. That's too complicated for me.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

StanK wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:39 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:58 am
If I were you I'd get https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/whe ... -dicut-21/
If I'm building bike from zero and don't have any wheels ... would be good option, for sure. In present circumstances weight saving wouldn't justify money difference in swapping wheels.
For most clincher wheels 1400g is great price vs weight vs strength meeting point. I'd just use up and wear out your Mavics then look for something new.

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StanK
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by StanK

I don't ride that much; 2500-3000 km/year, very modest. So, on that rate Mavics would last ... forever. No, I would like lighter wheels in this life :mrgreen:

Got to digest some information first, I think. Obviously, sub 1300-1350 isn't possible without compromise in stiffness. At least, I got that impression so far in this topic.
Question is, would I missed stiffness on slightly softer wheels to a point of regret. And that I can't know without trying some other wheels. And I haven't opportunity for that. :(

nachetetm
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by nachetetm

StanK wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:11 pm
I don't ride that much; 2500-3000 km/year, very modest. So, on that rate Mavics would last ... forever. No, I would like lighter wheels in this life :mrgreen:

Got to digest some information first, I think. Obviously, sub 1300-1350 isn't possible without compromise in stiffness. At least, I got that impression so far in this topic.
Question is, would I missed stiffness on slightly softer wheels to a point of regret. And that I can't know without trying some other wheels. And I haven't opportunity for that. :(
Mavic Open Pro with Carbon Ti are around 1300 gr and should be quite stiff. Definitely more than the DT swiss, as they will have better hub geometry and more spokes. The rims are similar. Again, bm0p700f probably can orientate you better. He is in UK (so no extra taxes) and I think he can ship to you at reasonable cost.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:54 am
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:06 am
Mr. Gib not true. I am a bit heavier than the OP and yet own and ride wheels and have built several that are under 1400g that are quite durable. It is possible.

The rim I would start with for light is the Mavic open pro ust 24H/28h and lace to Carbon Ti or Extralite hubs. With the extralite hubs weight would be 1280g and with carbon Ti hub it would be 50g heavier assuming Cx-rays. there is no gain in using thinner lighter spokes unless you want potenal reliability issues.
bm0p700f, I have great respect for your wheel knowledge and always read your posts with interest. I have no doubt that the wheels you describe above are of course the smartest way to hit that weight, and while they may be suitable for the OP, I maintain that they are unlikely to have the service life of a set of Shamal Ultras or Fulcrum counterpart.

Would you send a 300 lb man to the Alps with Mavic open pro ust 24H/28h laced to Carbon Ti or Extralite hubs? I have been with such a monster on a previous bike trip who rode Shamals and they were just fine (it blew my mind that any wheels would survive under this man).

And if you are wondering how a 300 lb man can survive the Alps, he didn't just survive - he was amazing - both up and down.
I dont think we are talking about a 300lb man though. I was not. Spoke life is almost entirely dependent on how stiff the wheel is latterally, torsionally and radially assuming the fatigue properties of the steel used in the spokes is the same.

stiffness is litterally load/mm deflection although for torsional stiffness it is probably better think of the size of the tension changes in the spokes but most humans are too weak to cause much fatigue this way. Flange size is the only way of reductng these loads. That is one way triplet lacing works. 14 spokes DS same as on a 28 spoke wheel.

I would not put a 300lb man on shamals. they may have survived the trip but how much longer after. Also it is not the weight of the rider thats the problem its how much side loading they are put under and how the power varies through the pedal stroke. Pretty much all wheels are radially stiff enough to cope with high weights. The open pro rim does not have a thick enough spoke nipple bed to cope with a 300lb rider. A shamal may do due to the way the rim is made.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Marin wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 am
bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:58 pm
DRC is an italian rim manufacturer. The 380g rim is just like the Kinlin XR22T. Same depth, same internal width but a tad narrower (0.5mm).
No! It's listed as Internal width: 13.5mm which is comically narrow, and an 18mm external rim with 380g will need a high spoke count for an enthusiastic 77kg rider.
The internal width of the XR220 rim which is what I was trying to write is 13.4mm. I wrtoe XR22T by mistake.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Having various wheels some comically flexible others heavier but very stiff, the stiffer wheels are just better wheels to ride on. not to mention stiffer wheels are easier to build.

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vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

to the OP:
to my knowledge, aero&stiffness beats weight. Why don't you get wheels laced by either The Cycle Clinic or Black Cat Wheels? Would easily provide you with reliable options for cc. 1400 grs wheels built into stff-reliable-bulletproof platforms. Or buy the parts (black friday on ali) and have it built up locally?

Personally, I'd not recommend anything narrower than 17c internal diameter. Wide rims (at least for me) only have advantages.

I guess you'd be better off with semi-aero&slightly higher profile rims, some pretty hubset from the far east or from the aforementioned european builders & pillar 1420-1422 spokes than with a narrow-shallow-ueberleichtweight set. :thumbup:

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vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

and one more point: if you are after weight savings, target the tube&tyre combination, and perhaps rims&nipples. The weight of your hubs or skewers does not really matter that much. For a good wheel, the geometry of the hub (flange diameters, flange distances) and bearing size-quality is more crucial than weight alone..

For weight savings: tufo calibra light with tubolito or latex inner tubes? :)

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StanK
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by StanK

vejnemojnen wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:54 am
to the OP:
to my knowledge, aero&stiffness beats weight...
It depends. Of course I have in mind stiff and light wheelset, I don't want soft one. Personally, I like feeling of snappier, more responsive bike, and this one (in signature, now sub 7kg - I would post changes when I take some time) is just that (at least for me). And even with change of skewers ( -90g on them only) it can be felt. I more rate fun of ride, because this year I broke my PB regarding year long mileage. And it's only because bike is really fun to ride.

And this is weight weenies, after all :D Aero is nice, but my trade off would be on weight saving side. At least for the time being.
Ideally, 200-250g lighter wheel with some aero benefit ("faster") would be winner. But, I don't know is there anything like that available. Especially alloy clinher.
vejnemojnen wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:54 am
Why don't you get wheels laced by either The Cycle Clinic or Black Cat Wheels? Would easily provide you with reliable options for cc. 1400 grs wheels built into stff-reliable-bulletproof platforms...
It would have to be in range of cca. 1300g to justify (for me, at least) my target price. Otherways I would probably stay with Ksyriums.

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StanK
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by StanK

vejnemojnen wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:58 am
and one more point: if you are after weight savings, target the tube&tyre combination...

... For weight savings: tufo calibra light with tubolito or latex inner tubes? :)
As I already said in my "introduction" topic, my weight saving would be with some limits. One of that are tires (it's all there, in signature).
I know I could save 100g easily, but don't want to use pump everyday for latex tubes and have a higher risk of punctures with sub 200g tires.

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vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

okay. What do you think about these?

https://www.slowbuild.eu/aluclincher/pu ... t-1250-gr/


there are other options. browse..

by Weenie


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StanK
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by StanK

What I think? Nothing :mrgreen: That's the point.
When it comes to chosing new wheels I have no experience at all. I have no grounding to base opinion. Hence whole this topic. Need some good guidance.
I have budget and I know, more or less, what I want for that. Even don't know if it's posible. If not, ok, I will stay with Ksyriums.

And that website is in German...
I overusing Google translate already :D All I see is very light wheels and very low prices. It rings "Too good to be true".

Btw. that Strada link (wheels) got my full attention now. Especially Stilleto. And especially when I was read more than few opinions that this is actually pretty stiff wheel, but also very, very light. I'm tempted right now.

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