Need new wheels

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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Kermithimself
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by Kermithimself

Had a crash yesterday on my Enve 4.5's that damaged the rims and currently is handling it with the insurance. So I'm looking for a new set of wheels to replace the 4.5's. Overall I've been happy with the rims - they handle great in crosswinds, get up to speed quickly, and most importantly: offer great braking both in dry and wet conditions. However, the carbon hubs and the stock spokes are utterly horrible in terms of stiffness. I've had to replace all spokes because they broke, and have to run the calipers quite wide to avoid brake rub.

So I'm looking for a wheelset that'll offer great braking performance in dry and wet conditions, while offering enough stiffness to avoid brake rubbing. My initial thought was to get a set of the new Enve 5.6 rims and have them laced with a set of WI T11 or Industry Nine hubs with some DT Swiss Aero Comp spokes, but I'll have to look at alternatives as well.

Needs to be clinchers, and needs to be good on mostly flat terrain. Any ideas?
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by Weenie


fluffandstuff
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Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 am

by fluffandstuff

How about campy bora one 50s, half the price of Enve and ticks all your boxes.


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GlacialPace
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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:37 am

by GlacialPace

Bontrager XXX in your depth of choice? Chinese rims built by your LBS with whatever hubs and spokes you want?

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Kermithimself
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by Kermithimself

fluffandstuff wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:47 am
How about campy bora one 50s, half the price of Enve and ticks all your boxes.
Cool, will look into those!
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Kermithimself
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by Kermithimself

GlacialPace wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:45 am
Bontrager XXX in your depth of choice? Chinese rims built by your LBS with whatever hubs and spokes you want?
The thing about the chinese rims would be if stopping power was great enough in the wet.
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GlacialPace
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by GlacialPace

Yeah for sure. Light bicycle now offer a tertured brake track but I haven't heard of anyone using it to get performance feedback from.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

First of all to address the problems with your enve.

Spokes break due to fatigue. This means the wheels were either 1) improperly tensioned, 2) in even tension, 3) not enough spokes ( i.e wheel not stiff enough radially, pl atterally and torsionally) for the loads placed on it or 4) a combination of all three.
Not stiff enough can be the spoke guage used and or the non drive side bracing angle. With the enve hubs I think they use DT Swiss hub geometry which is a recipe for brake rub due to the low non drive side rear bracing angle

Brake rub happens when the rim is too stiff for the spokes supporting it. One reason in fact the main reason why I do build with rims deeper than 50mm is because of this. Brake rub happens when the rim does not bend much when side loaded. The way to stop this is either more spokes or thicker spokes.

Many rims even Chinese ones offer good braking in the wet. Good wet braking is not the something only the expensive brands deliver. I can't speak for light bicycle or far sport as I get my rims elsewhere.

Avoiding brake run is easy but enve have made a mistake with a deeper rear rim. All that does is make brake rub more likely, make the rear wheel heavier for almost no aero gain.

Also some riders get more break rub than others.
Last edited by bm0p700f on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Multebear
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

WI T11 is a very good choice for hubs. They have no flaws at all IMHO. And they are the only hubs, that don’t have any flaws or drawbacks out there. DT240 hubs is a good choice as well.

Farsports rims handle braking very well both dry and wet. And they are durable. Ive done several trips to the alps with mine. No problems at all.

Enve are topshelf rims obviously. But you pay 400 % more for the brand and you only get 1-2 % better rims than good quality chinese rims like Farsports.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Yes they have a flaw. The enduro bearings. Over here I have been changing the bearings for free on a number of the wheels I have built with them. The bearings are utter shite and what i would except from a cheap novatec hub not a high end hubset. Obvioudly this is solved by changing the bearings for better ones. They could also be simpler to dissamble. They not difficult but there a number of hubs that are easier.

NovemberDave
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by NovemberDave

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:05 pm
Yes they have a flaw. The enduro bearings. Over here I have been changing the bearings for free on a number of the wheels I have built with them. The bearings are utter shite and what i would except from a cheap novatec hub not a high end hubset. Obvioudly this is solved by changing the bearings for better ones. They could also be simpler to dissamble. They not difficult but there a number of hubs that are easier.
You need to get up to date with WI. They changed their bearings and they're now quite good. Details at [url]https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... update/url].

If loosening 3 set screws (at the significant benefit of endcaps that don't fall out) is onerous, your life is much much easier than mine. WI T11s are SIMPLE to disassemble.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

the insert behind the collar is not so simple to remove. It is easy for me dave but I can see why( and have had) some customers have difficulty. I get calls and have to provide dissassembly help as it not obvious how to do it unless you know.

As for the bearings they are still enduro and given my past experience of them and everyone saying there were very good then you can forgive me for thinking they may not be all they are cracked up to be. I asked WI about the bearings at eurobike and all they said to me was they have been updated with better matierals but could not give me details. That means they are either being cagy or dont know (or that person did not know) so I left not being reassured. Besides hubs bought this year have still gone wrong in the bearing deperatment. I cant tell if what i recieved had the new bearings or not. So yes as far as I am concerned the WI T11 hub is a good hub except for the bearings with are best replaced as soon as I get them. If WI switched so something decent like SKF , INA or NTN I would start buying them again.

So I am up to date but I am not reassured. How can I recommend a hub that everyone used to say was brilliant but frankly was not until the bearings were changed. now WI say it has been revised with better bearings and everyone is still saying the same thing. I am not likely to buy a set build a set of wheels and run them over winter to see if it is true. You either trust a brand or you dont. My trust has been lost and it is not easily regained because if enduro slip again then a other wise good T11 hub slips with them. How can I sell that to a customer?

If I can get the hubs without bearings I would buy them and fit something decent I can trust and sell them sadly I cant.

These things cost £400 over here. For that money they cant be any flaws or any suspision there might be.
Last edited by bm0p700f on Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NovemberDave
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by NovemberDave

We just never agree, huh? That’s fine, it takes all types, do what you do, we’ll do what we do.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

We obviously have different experience thats why. Also in the U.K we have RoyceUK which make hubs similar to White industries (steel axles but 17/4 stainless, Ti freehub and 6001 NTN bearings). They weigh a bit more but that matter little.

Also white industries should really make some nice tools for hub dissembly so your not using sockets and the like to get axles out. i should turn on up on a lathe really.

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