Anyone riding on Mavic Cosmic Carbon SL UST wheels?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
User avatar
Noctiluxx
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

I wanted to try tubeless and after some research, ordered these wheels from Starbike. I currently ride on two pairs of Bora Ultra 50 clinchers, DT Swiss spline 28 Mon Chaseral, and having previously owned the Zipp 303 Firecrest and 404 NSW's. Can I expect similar, or closer to, level performance from the Mavic's? Thanks!
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Lately I am a big fan of Mavic. The UST sytem is fantastic. Be sure to use the Yksion Pro UST tires - you have choice of 25mm or 28mm. The only thing you may not like is the amount of seal drag on the rear wheel. It might feel a bit stiff to your fingers but as we know a finger test is not a significant performance indicator. Free hub is loud.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

by Weenie


User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2894
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

You can send them to me, i can test them and then tell ;-)
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

User avatar
Noctiluxx
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

I'm still waiting for my Mavic Cosmic Carbon SL UST from Starbike. BTW is Stans sealant good for the Mavic Pro UST tires? I have many bottle of their sealant for use on my MB tires.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

No Stan's! MTB only from what I have read.

The wheels probably come with the UST tires and a bottle of Mavic sealant. Use that or Orange Seal.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4890
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

mavic ust is a good system. the tyre are decent but wear quickly and cut up as well. from experience you can run IRC and hutchinson tyres safely with UST rims, if you dont get on with the tyres. I have not tried other brands yet but scwalbes will be fine.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3594
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

The Yksion Pro UST tires us the Hutchinson Storm 11 compound or whatever their latest greatest is called. Expect identical performance and wear as far as the outer tread is concerned. Don't know about the casing though.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

User avatar
Noctiluxx
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

So how good are these wheels? The specs, weight, height, rim width, UST, look great. But how do they compare with the Zipps NSW's, Boras, Enve, etc...? One dealer out here who sells both Enve and Zipps told me they are better than the NSW's and as good as the Enve's. Fingers crossed.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

User avatar
C36
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Noctiluxx wrote:So how good are these wheels? The specs, weight, height, rim width, UST, look great. But how do they compare with the Zipps NSW's, Boras, Enve, etc...? One dealer out here who sells both Enve and Zipps told me they are better than the NSW's and as good as the Enve's. Fingers crossed.
One thing for sure, they will be quite stiffer than models you mentioned and they have the only tubeless system that doesn’t have a “random” factor (“is my rim size fitting my tire size”?).
I am curious to see aero performance with the new rim shape.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

I bought these as an upgrade from the stock Ksyrium Elites that came with my Canyon, so cannot compare to Enve's etc. My 2c's worth:
- Wheels themselves are excellent, and I am definetely a fan. There is a measurable speed difference with the elites, and if one looks at various aero test data, these seem to be solidly in the pack of other more expensive ones for similar depth. You get more aero gain from deeper wheels, but IMO this is enough. They are also light - I had no issues in terms of discrepancies from claimed weight: pretty much spot on.

- Braking: you can read about elsewhere, but your mileage may vary. My view is that it's very good in the dry but passable-to-crappy in the wet. Similar views can be found for any carbon wheel: some find theirs ok, some say it's just terrifying, for every brand. Mind you, modulating on a descent to scrub off a bit of speed is no problem, but if you need to execute a rapid stop at the limit of tyre adhesion, caliper brakes on carbon wheels just don't get there. I had a couple of scary moments myself on shitty UK roads in a sportive, where a wet descent suddenly ends in a T-junction - you can just run out of room, if you don't know how far ahead you need to stop. Frankly, am not a fan of braking in the wet on aluminums either - it's also crap, for the same reason, even if braking distances are shorter. This is pretty much the only reason I am looking forward to the next bike being disc - safety, shorter braking distances, etc. In the meantime, I'll try swisstop black-prince to see if there is improvemenet.

- I like that the tyre is designed with the wheel. 25mm tyres fit these wheels nicely, with a very tight wheel-tyre interface, without much of a bulge (the wheel is 24mm wide, so there is a bit - and I imagine if Mavic widened the whell by 2mm, aero performance would be better).

- You can obviously run any tyre with the wheel, but I do like Mavic USTs. They have thicker thread, than Hutchinson 11storm equivalents, so also heavier -260g. I think that's a worthy compromise vs slighly longer longevity and puncture protection. Rolling resistance is very low. Do they cut up? Yes, you will have cuts in your thread on shit roads with lots of flints. Do they puncture? I found no more so than GP 4000SIIs. Anectodally, on an early spring sportive, riding with a buddy on GP 4000SIIs, I had one puncture, he had 5 (I had never seen so many roadside stops as on that sportive, it was insane). My puncture was from a lodged flint around 7mm across, which would have done in any tyre. It sealed, after pumping it up with a hand pump a couple of times, but I eventually replaced it because the seal resulted in a bump in the tyre. Overall time to wait for the seal to set was a bit longer than replacing a tube. On the plus side though - there may have been a number of smaller punctures that self-sealed, and which I simply did not notice. I use Orange Seal, and it is good. Have not tried Stan's.

- The wear on tyres is ok. One issue I found is that if you lock up your rear wheel a few times on really hard braking, the tread can partly separate from the carcass, creating what they call blistering in auto racing. Not a good thing! Bottom line is that I am now on a third rear, but still my first front, and the front has no visible wear.

The one issue I found, is frankly to do with replacement. UST was meant to make this all easy, but I am not so sure - tubetype tyres are still way easier. Putting tyres on is fine, although I have not been able to do this without use of any levers as in GCN video. But who cares - there is no tube to damage with a lever! They also inflate ok - on my first replacement I was able to "seat" the tyres with just a floor pump. Second replacement, when I also replaced a valve, there were too many leaks and I had to use a compressor. Sealant take a bit of time to stop all leaks, but once it does, all is well. However, taking the tyre OFF the wheel is a whole 'nother story! Once seated and sealed, it's almost as though the tyre is glued to the rim. I've had to use pliers a couple of times to "peel" it off, and forget doing it just by hand - your best scenario is that stepping on a tyre with a foot and pulling on the rim will do the trick. Levers will not "jam" between the tyre and rim until that initial segment is peeled. So.... the idea that you can do a roadside emergency repair of a tybeless tyre and, if need be, pop in a spare tube is a bit delusional, IMO. It's just too much faff. You need to (1) take off the tyre (see above), (2) remove and replace the tubeless valve - which will also be "glued in", and then reassemble with the tube. Basically, if the sealant has not worked - it's a taxi ride home, and it's better to carry extra sealant with you (along with a valve core remover tool) than a spare tube, but perhaps just unnecessary to carry anything other than a handpump.

Harpoon
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: UK

by Harpoon

Has anyone found any reviews on the "new" Cosmic Pro Carbon SL UST Disc? The Mavic site has them listed at 45mm deep and a new stealth look with minimal news. The ones Sigmasports etc are listing are 40mm.

zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

The Schwalbe Pro Ones couldn't be mounted on my Ksyrium Elite UST's so it could be the same with Cosmics.

@aeroisnteverything
Not sure if the tolerances are different on the Cosmics, but I don't need to use any tools to remove or add the tires on the Ksyriums (I still carry levers though because sealant can sometimes make it harder to remove the tire). It could be because of the aero profile that the process is harder. Also, pushing against the tire with my thumbs breaks the seal easily on mine. To remove the tire by hand, after you break the seal try to push the tire to the center all the way around the rim from each side, it makes the tire go into the "well" which then makes it easier to remove (the method is shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPbGfZoZCY). Sometimes you need to do it around a couple of times.

wingguy
Posts: 4288
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Harpoon wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:28 am
Has anyone found any reviews on the "new" Cosmic Pro Carbon SL UST Disc? The Mavic site has them listed at 45mm deep and a new stealth look with minimal news.
We've had a set delivered already, so I've had my hands on them but not ridden them. At first glance they're extremely similar, close up the noticeable difference is the shape of the rim where the brake track would be, quite sharply angled out to the widest point about a cm in from the edge of the rim. It's definitely a new, disc specific mould. Oddly it seems the opposite of the old CXR idea of filling in that gap between rim and tyre with the blades. Maybe they'll release some info on why they landed on that shape and what it does.

I'll see if I can take a photo tomorrow that shows what I'm failing to describe very well :P

wingguy
Posts: 4288
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:38 pm
However, taking the tyre OFF the wheel is a whole 'nother story! Once seated and sealed, it's almost as though the tyre is glued to the rim. I've had to use pliers a couple of times to "peel" it off, and forget doing it just by hand - your best scenario is that stepping on a tyre with a foot and pulling on the rim will do the trick. Levers will not "jam" between the tyre and rim until that initial segment is peeled. So.... the idea that you can do a roadside emergency repair of a tybeless tyre and, if need be, pop in a spare tube is a bit delusional, IMO. It's just too much faff.
It's also a different technique. Tubeless tyres are tighter in the bead, especially when the sealant's been there for a while, but you have to tackle it differently than you do a non-tubeless wheel/tyre combo. When you find the knack they're not that bad (and Mavic are definitely much better than some others). Certainly more hassle doing it by the side of the road with wet or dirty hands, but absolutely doable.

by Weenie


aeroisnteverything
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

zefs wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:35 pm
The Schwalbe Pro Ones couldn't be mounted on my Ksyrium Elite UST's so it could be the same with Cosmics.

@aeroisnteverything
Not sure if the tolerances are different on the Cosmics, but I don't need to use any tools to remove or add the tires on the Ksyriums (I still carry levers though because sealant can sometimes make it harder to remove the tire). It could be because of the aero profile that the process is harder. Also, pushing against the tire with my thumbs breaks the seal easily on mine. To remove the tire by hand, after you break the seal try to push the tire to the center all the way around the rim from each side, it makes the tire go into the "well" which then makes it easier to remove (the method is shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPbGfZoZCY). Sometimes you need to do it around a couple of times.
I've watched every video I could find on this. Once the seal breaks - no problem. Breaking the seal is the difficulty (forget thumbs!)

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post