Aero data from 19 wheels by Hambini

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Vermu
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:39 am

by Vermu

Tbh sometimes I didnt wonder why Hambinis answers were so hostile. There were few that didnt really bring the conversation to next level.

What Hambini has done isn’t so far off from what we’ve seen on decent wheel test. Just that no one has ever compared such a massive amount of wheels. And he was able to bring testing protocol to next level. Now I’m nowhere near aerodynamic expert but I could see reasoning in Hambinis testing.
Others were disagreeing like a broken record.

He has done huge favour to this community and this subject should’ve been dealt earlier and few more band are needed.

Sure he’s commenting about dale bb in this topic derailed and shouldn’t have been here, but the qc has been kinda rubbish.


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robeambro
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

For those who are sad and/or see an evil ploy behind the ban.. Hambini did not get banned because he published his study, or because he tried to demolish the status quo.
He has been banned because he repeatedly name-called people who questioned his methods. (and some of his followers such as otoman and ryanw seem prone to do the same,)

I would guess the moderators had already warned him in private not to continue, and he ignored those. Is this the way of debate you like to see on a forum, where we insult each other personally cause we don't agree? I honestly don't understand you guys..

Science is good and useful, and I would really love to see further contributions from Hambini cause they enrich our knowledge), but I'd also like to see mutual respect rather than insults.

by Weenie


Matt28NJ
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am

by Matt28NJ

robeambro wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:08 pm
I'd also like to see mutual respect rather than insults.
No one is disagreeing - I think some defending Hambini are stating that his buttons were pushed repeatedly to attack him. No matter, as the replies are Hambini's own responsibility to answer without crossing the line. If it were me, I'd have just ignored the trolls and stuck to the facts. There were some posters that genuinely questioned the results (OK, and good for the community when done respectfully), and a few that were obvious trolls to be ignored (Paula? joining the forum to request an image of a privately sent letter, adding nothing to the community cycling related? Should be banned).

My comment a few posts back (as with @C36's) was that the temp ban hammer wasn't the right method. Rather, taking care of it behind the scenes was the way to go.

Hexsense
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Fair balanced act. I like that.
His science and tests are good. His behavior is not. Lets not mix them together. He deserve both thanks and (temporary) banned at the same time.

Just stop doing personal attack, then no one could do anything to him.
Last edited by Hexsense on Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tanhalt
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

ryanw wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:40 am
A real shame. Hambini may not have been the most professional in some of his replies, but he's just a bloke doing this for others benefits. If you choose to take what he says as gospel, then that's up to you. Don't cnut him off just because you disagree. Walk the other way and don't read his posts, it's really that simple.

Tanhalt has been a complete d*ck in all of this and constantly antagonised Hambini, pressing his buttons and acting like a child.

It's pathetic.
Really?? I think you may want to review the entire thread again and see who begins (and continues) the ad hominem attacks, baseless accusations of being a "shill" and diversionary tactics around basic questions about the data gathering and tests...to save you some time, it wasn't me. I've merely consistently attempted to get him to explain/clarify his approach (not unreasonable for relatively novel approach to the subject and controversial claims) with the occasional light verbal counter-jab to his attacks. If that's being a "d*ck", so be it :roll:

To all of you "worshipping" this awesome data set, I just want to point out there's a quite a few things that don't quite pass the "smell" test, including:
-For one, why has there been nothing revealed about the on-bike data gathering setup? Not even a blurry picture or two.
-How about some summary data of the findings?
-Now then, let's talk about the logistics of the claimed testing (thanks to Josh Poertner for pointing this out). Using the protocol he showed, each run at each wind speed requires nearly a 1/2 hour of running time (not including setup/breakdown), so we're talking a minimum of each wheel set requiring 1hour for just a single run at each wind speed. However, he claims they've done multiple runs for each data point. Ok then, let's assume at least 3 repeats for each wheel set. That's 3 hours per, times 33 wheel sets currently on his chart...that's nearly 100 hours (and nearly 200 runs) of just "on" time in the tunnel...and he's gotten to do that for free?
-Speaking of the run times...having had a small bit of experience as a wind tunnel "dummy", I find it unfathomable that they have found someone (living) who can reliably hold a position through a single run lasting a half hour. Much shorter runs are not only mentally fatiguing (boring), but physically fatiguing as well. It is common for a rider's position to degrade over the course of a testing session due to fatigue even with runs of significantly shorter duration. Now then...ask that guy to keep doing that ~200 more times...yeah, right. You couldn't pay me to keep doing that.

So now then...you all go ahead and blindly take these "results" at face value and applaud the author for giving you this "free" data.

I'm not buying it...

yltman
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:50 pm

by yltman

tanhalt wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:28 pm
To all of you "worshipping" this awesome data set
hopefully one day we will see your "better" data set with "better" results, and until then I hope we will not see you in this topic again.
bye

Matt28NJ
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am

by Matt28NJ

tanhalt wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:28 pm
I'm not buying it...
You made your point a dozen times in this thread. We got it. It's over. Done. Yep. Ok.

You're minimally better than Hambini at this point. You seem to like the dude a bit too much. Move on, as the other folks in this thread have told you to do.

SachinHambini
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:58 pm

by SachinHambini

While I may get a longer ban for trying to dodge the original ban. I wanted to post this as my reasoning has not been justified and has been glossed over.

Tom Anhalt repeatedly called me Hambone, this is a derogatory term given by British colonialists to peasants of predominantly Indian origin. Effectively giving the bones to the peasants to chew on after the rich Colonialsts had eaten the good bits.

Tom claims this is an Autocorrect and I have pointed it out to him before that it was a slur but he chose to ignore it. Therefore I said what I did and I'm completely unrepentant and will not apologize. A lot of people have accused me of crossing a line, this is why that was crossed.

I am quite tired of trying to defend? my protocol and methods. I don't do them for any monetary gain and what set out as a few engineers using their free time constructively has been systematically dissected to the nth degree by what I would class as people with a vested interest. Some people haven't liked the results and taken issue with it. They are free to do that but I will no longer answer their questions because their motives are not to further understand or make an informed choice, it's to find a bit of wiggle room to get wheel X into a better position. I feel I have given much more info than other manufacturers have with regards their test methods and I went so far as to give an error margin - a statistic that I have not seen on a wheel test anywhere else.

And I would also like to take the opportunity to all of the posters who have given me support both on here, in my emails and on twitter.

Thankyou

Hambini
Last edited by SachinHambini on Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ericoschmitt
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

ryanw wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:40 am
A real shame. Hambini may not have been the most professional in some of his replies, but he's just a bloke doing this for others benefits. If you choose to take what he says as gospel, then that's up to you. Don't cnut him off just because you disagree. Walk the other way and don't read his posts, it's really that simple.

Tanhalt has been a complete d*ck in all of this and constantly antagonised Hambini, pressing his buttons and acting like a child.

It's pathetic.
I tottally disagree with this.

Anhalt, and others (me included) asked for more information about the test protocol. He resisted with lots of childish behavior but eventually added some stuff to the website and thats cool - but I still think it misses a lot. But I gave up asking after his behavior - and Anhalt didnt give up and thats it. So he got personal attacks for insisting, and Hambini most times resorted to his own authority and even insults.

Shrike
Posts: 1401
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Surely the racial slur issue warrants the greatest attention here.

What's happening with that mods?

ericoschmitt
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

Still not sure a ban is the best way to solve things, but Hambini, you can be way more polite, even when you think someone is asking something stupid and that they know nothing about the topic.

ericoschmitt
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

Shrike wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:24 pm
Surely the racial slur issue warrants the greatest attention here.

What's happening with that mods?
I think you missed Anhalt answer on this a couple pages ago. It pretty much explains all.

User avatar
Powerful Pete
Moderator
Posts: 4079
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:22 am
Location: Lima, Peru and the Washington DC area - it's complicated.

by Powerful Pete

Shrike wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:24 pm
Surely the racial slur issue warrants the greatest attention here.

What's happening with that mods?
Shrike - I appear to have missed that. Could you point me in the right direction on that issue (even via PM if you think it best).

Thanks, Pete
Road bike: Cervelo R3, Campagnolo Chorus/Record mix...
Supercommuter: Jamis Renegade...
Oldie but goodie: De Rosa Professional Slx, Campagnolo C-Record...
And you can call me Macktastik Honey Pete Kicks, thank you.

User avatar
Powerful Pete
Moderator
Posts: 4079
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:22 am
Location: Lima, Peru and the Washington DC area - it's complicated.

by Powerful Pete

SachinHambini wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:12 pm
While I may get a longer ban for trying to dodge the original ban. I wanted to post this as my reasoning has not been justified and has been glossed over.

Tom Anhalt repeatedly called me Hambone, this is a derogatory term given by British colonialists to peasants of predominantly Indian origin. Effectively giving the bones to the peasants to chew on after the rich Colonialsts had eaten the good bits.

Tom claims this is an Autocorrect and I have pointed it out to him before that it was a slur but he chose to ignore it. Therefore I said what I did and I'm completely unrepentant and will not apologize. A lot of people have accused me of crossing a line, this is why that was crossed.

I am quite tired of trying to defend? my protocol and methods. I don't do them for any monetary gain and what set out as a few engineers using their free time constructively has been systematically dissected to the nth degree by what I would class as people with a vested interest. Some people haven't liked the results and taken issue with it. They are free to do that but I will no longer answer their questions because their motives are not to further understand or make an informed choice, it's to find a bit of wiggle room to get wheel X into a better position. I feel I have given much more info than other manufacturers have with regards their test methods and I went so far as to give an error margin - a statistic that I have not seen on a wheel test anywhere else.

And I would also like to take the opportunity to all of the posters who have given me support both on here, in my emails and on twitter.

Thankyou

Hambini
Hambini - I was not aware of this other person's insult. I will look into this. I am leaving your post up in the constructive spirit in which you posted this time.

All - I have no issue with Hambini, and no dog in this fight. I have an issue with insulting posts. I will not discuss this further.

Thanks, Pete
Road bike: Cervelo R3, Campagnolo Chorus/Record mix...
Supercommuter: Jamis Renegade...
Oldie but goodie: De Rosa Professional Slx, Campagnolo C-Record...
And you can call me Macktastik Honey Pete Kicks, thank you.

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 7052
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

SachinHambini wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:12 pm
Tom Anhalt repeatedly called me Hambone, this is a derogatory term given by British colonialists to peasants of predominantly Indian origin. Effectively giving the bones to the peasants to chew on after the rich Colonialsts had eaten the good bits.
If this is true then we should all expect (if not demand from) the moderators to ban tanhalt. And not for just a week or a month.

by Weenie


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