Aero data from 19 wheels by Hambini

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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tanhalt
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:24 pm
I only said triathalon because they seem to be popular with triathetes. Looking at them, they do weight 1700 grams so they are more than a handful of grams heavier than say a Campy Bora One 50mm (1485 grams) but they are also around $600 cheaper.
I was comparing to equivalently deep Zipp or Enve offerings, where they typically are within ~50g or so.

Also, when I built up a new bike a few years ago using Hed Jet6 Blacks, they were one of the few components for that build which actually came in UNDER their claimed weight (by ~20g for the wheelset, IIRC)

by Weenie


hambini
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

So TOm is done with picking fault with the protocol and we've zeroed in on one line where the error is stated at 2.5%....
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

cunn1n9
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:24 am

by cunn1n9

hambini wrote:
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm


Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).
Well in England, we'd call you a chancer who talks a good game. Because you are not familiar with "British English" in the purest form - I will elaborate for your benefit and the amusement of fellow forum members.

Someone who talks a good game is an individual who acts like they know a lot about a subject (in this case aerodynamics), has all the right "buzz words" and talks like they are a professor when they are simply a spec of $hite on the anus of humanity and when put under the microscope, they have the same knowledge as that of an amoeba.
Hambini this is way across the line and paints you in a very poor light. I have been grateful to you for your tests but this is out of all proportion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

antonio07
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:11 pm

by antonio07

tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm
spartacus wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:46 pm
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:46 pm
The HED Jet 6 is within 2 or 3 watts of most other 60-65mm rims on the chart. That, I guess, is within the margin of error. And the HED wheelset only costs $1000 so it could still be a great choice for triathletes.
Why do people always say they’re a good choice for triathletes specifically? Is there something about them that makes them less suitable for road riding? If anything it seems like the aluminum braking surface would make them preferable for road cycling.
They are perfectly suitable for road riding. They are within a handful of grams of the mass of equivalently performing all-carbon clincher wheels, and as you point out, the aluminum braking surface outperforms braking on carbon...especially if you go with one of their models that has the "Turbine" brake track treatement (basically engraved radial grooves w/black anodizing). Coupled with a quality brake, they equal, or outperform disc brakes, even in the wet.

You just have to get over the stereotype that the hybrid aluminum/carbon construction is "cheap". It's actually a better solution to the "aerodynamics plus good braking" problem than so-called "high tech" all-carbon clinchers, rim OR disc braked.

Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).

I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best

tanhalt
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

hambini wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:28 pm
So TOm is done with picking fault with the protocol and we've zeroed in on one line where the error is stated at 2.5%....
Nope...

hambini
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

Tom calls me hambone which is a racial slur. Nobody says a word. Double standards?
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

hambini
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm
spartacus wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:46 pm
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:46 pm
The HED Jet 6 is within 2 or 3 watts of most other 60-65mm rims on the chart. That, I guess, is within the margin of error. And the HED wheelset only costs $1000 so it could still be a great choice for triathletes.
Why do people always say they’re a good choice for triathletes specifically? Is there something about them that makes them less suitable for road riding? If anything it seems like the aluminum braking surface would make them preferable for road cycling.
They are perfectly suitable for road riding. They are within a handful of grams of the mass of equivalently performing all-carbon clincher wheels, and as you point out, the aluminum braking surface outperforms braking on carbon...especially if you go with one of their models that has the "Turbine" brake track treatement (basically engraved radial grooves w/black anodizing). Coupled with a quality brake, they equal, or outperform disc brakes, even in the wet.

You just have to get over the stereotype that the hybrid aluminum/carbon construction is "cheap". It's actually a better solution to the "aerodynamics plus good braking" problem than so-called "high tech" all-carbon clinchers, rim OR disc braked.

Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).

I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best
I would get the Shimano. They will last but are heavier
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

hambini
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 pm
hambini wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:28 pm
So TOm is done with picking fault with the protocol and we've zeroed in on one line where the error is stated at 2.5%....
Nope...
Well in that case. The distribution is symmetrical. Therefore the mean and median are the same
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...
Add me ON TWITTER!
Aerodynamic Masterclass in bicycle wheels
I fixed the bottom bracket from hell

tanhalt
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm
spartacus wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:46 pm
AJS914 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:46 pm
The HED Jet 6 is within 2 or 3 watts of most other 60-65mm rims on the chart. That, I guess, is within the margin of error. And the HED wheelset only costs $1000 so it could still be a great choice for triathletes.
Why do people always say they’re a good choice for triathletes specifically? Is there something about them that makes them less suitable for road riding? If anything it seems like the aluminum braking surface would make them preferable for road cycling.
They are perfectly suitable for road riding. They are within a handful of grams of the mass of equivalently performing all-carbon clincher wheels, and as you point out, the aluminum braking surface outperforms braking on carbon...especially if you go with one of their models that has the "Turbine" brake track treatement (basically engraved radial grooves w/black anodizing). Coupled with a quality brake, they equal, or outperform disc brakes, even in the wet.

You just have to get over the stereotype that the hybrid aluminum/carbon construction is "cheap". It's actually a better solution to the "aerodynamics plus good braking" problem than so-called "high tech" all-carbon clinchers, rim OR disc braked.

Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).

I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best
Well...assuming you're comparing to the latest c60 clincher, the Heds weigh nearly 200g less. I'd expect the aero performance to be basically a wash, depending on your use case.

I'd go for whichever one you think looks better :thumbup:

antonio07
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:11 pm

by antonio07

hambini wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:54 pm
antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm
spartacus wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:46 pm


Why do people always say they’re a good choice for triathletes specifically? Is there something about them that makes them less suitable for road riding? If anything it seems like the aluminum braking surface would make them preferable for road cycling.
They are perfectly suitable for road riding. They are within a handful of grams of the mass of equivalently performing all-carbon clincher wheels, and as you point out, the aluminum braking surface outperforms braking on carbon...especially if you go with one of their models that has the "Turbine" brake track treatement (basically engraved radial grooves w/black anodizing). Coupled with a quality brake, they equal, or outperform disc brakes, even in the wet.

You just have to get over the stereotype that the hybrid aluminum/carbon construction is "cheap". It's actually a better solution to the "aerodynamics plus good braking" problem than so-called "high tech" all-carbon clinchers, rim OR disc braked.

Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).

I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best
I would get the Shimano. They will last but are heavier
Shimano ? Even being MUCH more narrow ?

Just one more question:

You have both C35 and C50 which you prefer ? I will be using for flats, is there alot of AERO gains between them ?

tanhalt
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

hambini wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:53 pm
Tom calls me hambone which is a racial slur. Nobody says a word. Double standards?
Racial slur? Really?? Oh please...that's a new one on me...
hambone. (n.d.). Retrieved October 26th, 2018, from https://www.yourdictionary.com/hambone

Noun
(plural hambones)

The bone at the center of a ham
(US slang) A ham; an eager or inferior performer
(music, dance) A certain type of dance that involves making noise with the body, especially by slapping parts of the body with one's hands
(bowling, informal) Four consecutive strikes.
...and to be honest, the first time was an auto-correction...I thought it was funny and somewhat appropriate, especially given the second definition listed above

antonio07
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:11 pm

by antonio07

tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:00 pm
antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm
spartacus wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:46 pm


Why do people always say they’re a good choice for triathletes specifically? Is there something about them that makes them less suitable for road riding? If anything it seems like the aluminum braking surface would make them preferable for road cycling.
They are perfectly suitable for road riding. They are within a handful of grams of the mass of equivalently performing all-carbon clincher wheels, and as you point out, the aluminum braking surface outperforms braking on carbon...especially if you go with one of their models that has the "Turbine" brake track treatement (basically engraved radial grooves w/black anodizing). Coupled with a quality brake, they equal, or outperform disc brakes, even in the wet.

You just have to get over the stereotype that the hybrid aluminum/carbon construction is "cheap". It's actually a better solution to the "aerodynamics plus good braking" problem than so-called "high tech" all-carbon clinchers, rim OR disc braked.

Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).

I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best
Well...assuming you're comparing to the latest c60 clincher, the Heds weigh nearly 200g less. I'd expect the aero performance to be basically a wash, depending on your use case.

I'd go for whichever one you think looks better :thumbup:
What I don't like is that the C60 are very narrow wheels. :shock: :D :D

tanhalt
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

hambini wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:57 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:52 pm
hambini wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:28 pm
So TOm is done with picking fault with the protocol and we've zeroed in on one line where the error is stated at 2.5%....
Nope...
Well in that case. The distribution is symmetrical. Therefore the mean and median are the same
Well, good...that wasn't clear from how you originally presented it.

tanhalt
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:13 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:00 pm
antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 pm


They are perfectly suitable for road riding. They are within a handful of grams of the mass of equivalently performing all-carbon clincher wheels, and as you point out, the aluminum braking surface outperforms braking on carbon...especially if you go with one of their models that has the "Turbine" brake track treatement (basically engraved radial grooves w/black anodizing). Coupled with a quality brake, they equal, or outperform disc brakes, even in the wet.

You just have to get over the stereotype that the hybrid aluminum/carbon construction is "cheap". It's actually a better solution to the "aerodynamics plus good braking" problem than so-called "high tech" all-carbon clinchers, rim OR disc braked.

Of course, now I'll probably be accused of being a "shill" for Hed :roll: (which if you are aware of any of my history with interactions with them you migh find quite laughable).

I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best
Well...assuming you're comparing to the latest c60 clincher, the Heds weigh nearly 200g less. I'd expect the aero performance to be basically a wash, depending on your use case.

I'd go for whichever one you think looks better :thumbup:
What I don't like is that the C60 are very narrow wheels. :shock: :D :D
Jets it is then. You'll save 200g, and any given tire will measure out wider on them than the Shimanos, and thus you'll be able to run lower pressures without the risk of pinch flatting, and depending on the road surface, your Crr could effectively be lowered. What's not to like?

by Weenie


antonio07
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:11 pm

by antonio07

tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:17 pm
antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:13 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:00 pm
antonio07 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:31 pm



I'm looking buy the HED Jet4plus which are 46mm and weight 1650g or Dura-ace C60 clinchers.
What is your opinion ?

best
Well...assuming you're comparing to the latest c60 clincher, the Heds weigh nearly 200g less. I'd expect the aero performance to be basically a wash, depending on your use case.

I'd go for whichever one you think looks better :thumbup:
What I don't like is that the C60 are very narrow wheels. :shock: :D :D
Jets it is then. You'll save 200g, and any given tire will measure out wider on them than the Shimanos, and thus you'll be able to run lower pressures without the risk of pinch flatting, and depending on the road surface, your Crr could effectively be lowered. What's not to like?
thankkssss :beerchug: :beerchug:

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