Aero data from 19 wheels by Hambini

[robeambro]

Re Hambone: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... e#p1427306
Anyway in such cases one still needs to take a deep breath and reply only after calming down. I too sometimes wrote some nasty reply here and there, but instead of posting it I just deleted it and then wrote another, much more muted one after few hours of doing something else. Take a bike ride before replying for example.

To be fair, Hambini is going for BS, and I hope moderators see through it.

He said, and I quote, "Tom Anhalt repeatedly called me Hambone".

Three things are wrong.

1. A quick search in this discussion yields only one instance where Tom Anhalt used that term.

2. Te fact that it was a racial slur has not been confirmed by any source. While I don't want to assume he has made this up, I can't see any info at all online about it (happy to be proven wrong with links to relevant literature though).

3. even if this were offensive to Hambini in any way that general people would not be aware of, Tom Anhalt said he won't be using that name again, and he doesn't seem to have used it.

To be fair to Hambini, Tom did call him Hambone multiple times over on Slowtwitch. I've been following the discussion on both forums and it's quite interesting as Hambini does not have many (if any) supporters on ST as opposed to WW.

I'm quite appreciative of the questions that were raised, regardless of any alleged bias on the part of those who raised them. Good science stands up to scrutiny and pointing out flaws in protocols and results benefits us all. The discussion left me with a less favourable (but not entirely unfavourable) opinion of the results of the study, mainly due to the tone and response from Hambini. Notably:

1. Hambini's personal insults towards people who criticize his results. This criticism hasn't been limited to those with a more combative approach like tanhalt, though I do appreciate that the bulk was levied at tanhalt and that buttons were being pushed.

2. Hambini's propensity to stretch the truth. I'm talking specifically about him claiming that Flo has a practice of "paying prominent forum members in a number of popular cycling/tri forums to endorse their products". This entire accusation is based on tanhalt admitting that Flo sent him a single free wheel after his garage was broken into and a number of bikes and wheelsets stolen, including a wheel he purchased from Flo. Flo has been an active and standup member of Slowtwitch and actions like these should be encouraged, not penalized. Their conduct should obviously have no bearing on the results (and I will definitely think twice before buying any of their wheels), but I believe that the personal accusations against them are unwarranted.

3. The lawyer letter mention. This is a weird one as Flo has categorically denied sending it, whereas Hambini has doubled down and mentioned that it will be "uploaded in due course". One of the sides is going to come out of this with their reputation severely damaged. I don't understand why Flo would claim that they didn't send one if they did as they could be so easily proven wrong. I also don't understand why Hambini would claim that they did send one if they didn't as that sounds like a libel lawsuit waiting to happen. I would however note that Hambini initially mentioned that 2 companies sent lawyer letters and that he would not specify which ones based on advice (I presume legal) he received. Then he specifically named Flo but would not upload a copy of the letter (no mention of the second company). Now the letter will be "uploaded in due course".

I fully agree. And I think that it may even be sensible to ban Tom Anhalt for a week as well, even though I wouldn't do it myself.

I would like to raise a point which has not been discussed yet and I think is very important. I fully approve the ban for what was written HERE, on this very forum.
However, I really think Moderators should be very cautious in gathering evidence that leads to ultimately banning people (and this holds for both Hambini and potentially Tom Anhalt) from other forums, such as SlowTwitch.
What if I am on another forum dedicated to cycling and I write "XXX is a piece of YYY, he wrote this stuff on forum ZZZ, can you believe it". Can I be banned on WW for that? What if I'm friends on FB with a WW user and I see him writing racist/offensive/sexist/whathaveyou remarks on his Facebook wall?
So, this is a line we don't want to cross, I think..

Yeah and to be honest if they ban you for this I think it may even be be fair enough*. But I'm happy, since you seem to be understanding of the error in your ways. Which I hope Hambini will be as well.

*ultimately, it's a 1-week ban for each of you guys, almost sounds like moderators are lapidating people here..

Now you made me look up "lapidating"...ironically, I was watching "The Life of Brian" just the other night...

The advantage of being Italian is that you get to know plenty of words coming from Latin that not even many English natives know. Works pretty well in making me look smarter than I actually am.

[guyc]

Your mother is a hamster.

[RyanH]

I would like to raise a point which has not been discussed yet and I think is very important. I fully approve the ban for what was written HERE, on this very forum.
However, I really think Moderators should be very cautious in gathering evidence that leads to ultimately banning people (and this holds for both Hambini and potentially Tom Anhalt) from other forums, such as SlowTwitch.
What if I am on another forum dedicated to cycling and I write "XXX is a piece of YYY, he wrote this stuff on forum ZZZ, can you believe it". Can I be banned on WW for that? What if I'm friends on FB with a WW user and I see him writing racist/offensive/sexist/whathaveyou remarks on his Facebook wall?
So, this is a line we don't want to cross, I think..

Don't read too much into me citing an example from ST. I'm in the midst of an 80 hour work week and the last thing I want to do is dig through 64 pages where there's plenty of examples (but buried somewhere) to illustrate my point. The Damon Rinard example was particularly striking because Damon's sole comment was "No" (in response to whether we can draw conclusions from Hambini's study) and Hambini went on a tirade. Similar behavior has been demonstrated here, but again, it's a really busy week and I don't want to spend my free time finding evidence to support the position that he needed to be put on a vacation. It's here, there's plenty of it and if anything, by mentioning ST, it's not isolated to just a few antagonists...there's a demonstrated pattern of this behavior.

At the end of the day, he has repeatedly and seriously violated our code of conduct so I stand by Powerful Pete's decision to put him on vacation. Several people have PMed me in the past and I told them that I didn't want to interfere because a) the targets of his personal attacks haven't complained and b) what he's putting out in public is only hurting him so I'd prefer him to live with the bed he made.

OK, I'm back off to work, spent my break dealing with this rather than ogling bikes...

[robeambro]

I would like to raise a point which has not been discussed yet and I think is very important. I fully approve the ban for what was written HERE, on this very forum.
However, I really think Moderators should be very cautious in gathering evidence that leads to ultimately banning people (and this holds for both Hambini and potentially Tom Anhalt) from other forums, such as SlowTwitch.
What if I am on another forum dedicated to cycling and I write "XXX is a piece of YYY, he wrote this stuff on forum ZZZ, can you believe it". Can I be banned on WW for that? What if I'm friends on FB with a WW user and I see him writing racist/offensive/sexist/whathaveyou remarks on his Facebook wall?
So, this is a line we don't want to cross, I think..

Don't read too much into me citing an example from ST. I'm in the midst of an 80 hour work week and the last thing I want to do is dig through 64 pages where there's plenty of examples (but buried somewhere) to illustrate my point. The Damon Rinard example was particularly striking because Damon's sole comment was "No" (in response to whether we can draw conclusions from Hambini's study) and Hambini went on a tirade. Similar behavior has been demonstrated here, but again, it's a really busy week and I don't want to spend my free time finding evidence to support the position that he needed to be put on a vacation. It's here, there's plenty of it and if anything, by mentioning ST, it's not isolated to just a few antagonists...there's a demonstrated pattern of this behavior.

At the end of the day, he has repeatedly and seriously violated our code of conduct so I stand by Powerful Pete's decision to put him on vacation. Several people have PMed me in the past and I told them that I didn't want to interfere because a) the targets of his personal attacks haven't complained and b) what he's putting out in public is only hurting him so I'd prefer him to live with the bed he made.

OK, I'm back off to work, spent my break dealing with this rather than ogling bikes...

No Ryan, I wasn't even remotely being facetious by reading too much into that. I was also one of those several people who you had messaged with, and I approve the decision by Powerful Pete - just pointing that between you mentioning Hambini's attitude on that board, and other people mentioning that Tom Anhalt had used certain terms there as well, it may sound like people could be punished for breaking rules elsewhere. I fully agree that there's plenty of elements in this thread alone to support the ban and never asked for them to be digged out of the hole..

[tanhalt]

Your mother is a hamster.

Wrong Monty Python movie...that's from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

[guyc]

Your mother is a hamster.

Wrong Monty Python movie...that's from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

I know. I was just chuckling away.

[DurianGrey]

I would like to raise a point which has not been discussed yet and I think is very important. I fully approve the ban for what was written HERE, on this very forum.
However, I really think Moderators should be very cautious in gathering evidence that leads to ultimately banning people from other forums, such as SlowTwitch.
What if I am on another forum dedicated to cycling and I write "XXX is a piece of YYY, he wrote this stuff on forum ZZZ, can you believe it". Can I be banned on WW for that?

Sure you can pal, you can be banned for whatever the owner of the site wants!

What if I'm friends on FB with a WW user and I see him writing racist/offensive/sexist/whathaveyou remarks on his Facebook wall?

then.... we could ban him? Please, Santa, please could we ban him?

[DurianGrey]

Anyway here's a hot new edition of refried excel charts; I did some guessing on the planet x disc/80mm combo since it's not clear exactly what was used. Red = alloy braking surfaces, this also includes Yoeleo's price increase to $767/set

[Powerful Pete]

Everyone, tanhalt has also received a one week ban for offensive language. Hambini's new username has also received a one week ban for obvious reasons.

Normally as a mod I do not feel it necessary to discuss bans, but have done so for the benefit of forum members in this thread. I will not comment further.

I am also taking the decision to shut down this thread to let things cool down. Feel free to start a new thread on a similar topic. Do not rehash the past with regards to the insults that have been posted on this thread.

For the record:

1. All decisions made were taken based on posts on WW;
2. We welcome all knowledge, posts, comments and threads that add to the community;
3. We do not welcome insulting posts;
4. Please reach out to me or any of the other mods if you have issues or concerns with other posters;
5. Folks, let us all take a deep breath - resorting to name calling (as some have continued to do in this thread following Hambini's ban) is not constructive and should it continue will lead to more bans - I do not think it the best use of my time going through a 60-odd page thread moderating and cleaning up individual posts; and
6. Go. Ride. Your. Bike (again, come on, we are all here because cycling is our somewhat unhealthy passion).