Lightweight vs AX Lighness

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6280
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

by Weenie


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Wookski
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

I have AX25T, LW Obermeyer, Bora Ultra 50 and Hyperon Ultra- I also weigh under 64kg.

The AX’s are the Extralite version laced with pillar maglites @ 780g. They’re surprisingly stiff and durable- I have even used them on “gentle” gravel. That being said your weight may be an issue. They are best paired with a thin, narrow Tubular like veloflex criterium/ Carbon. I have run them with 25mm corsa controls and they lose some of their magic.

The obermeyers when paired with the right tyres are beautiful. 22-23mm high TPI cotton tubs and you won’t want to ride anything else. Anything wider than 23 and you should look elsewhere. They’re laterally stiff but vertically compliant, IMO these are the best wheels lightweight make. The shitty crosswind handling also makes them more interesting and despite the old school aero tech they “feel” very quick.

The Boras are absolutely fantastic- totally bullet proof. Same can be said about the hyperons which I am now running with challenge seta 25’s. These wheels would have no issue with your weight but the aesthetic crime of running Shimagnolo is unforgivable.

vanBMC24
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:15 am

by vanBMC24

I did it, ordered the LW Meilenstein yesterday.
Overall the Boras would be the better all round Wheel. But once in your life you have to ride Lightweight wheels.

KCookie
Posts: 1963
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

You will love them, just don't ride when it's windy, lol. Gipfelsturms would be my preference though.

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vanBMC24
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:15 am

by vanBMC24

I think that should not be a big problem with my 80kg‘s :thumbup:

TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

vanBMC24 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:43 am
I did it, ordered the LW Meilenstein yesterday.
Overall the Boras would be the better all round Wheel. But once in your life you have to ride Lightweight wheels.
Which version did you go for tubs or clinchers? Standard or 24e? Either way they are a thing of beauty to me.

I did 140km on my Meilensteins last Friday. Much of it in really bad weather. I can confirm as you’d expect the braking isn’t the best... but the ride quality is something else.

vanBMC24
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:15 am

by vanBMC24

TurboTommy wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:52 pm
vanBMC24 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:43 am
I did it, ordered the LW Meilenstein yesterday.
Overall the Boras would be the better all round Wheel. But once in your life you have to ride Lightweight wheels.
Which version did you go for tubs or clinchers? Standard or 24e? Either way they are a thing of beauty to me.

I did 140km on my Meilensteins last Friday. Much of it in really bad weather. I can confirm as you’d expect the braking isn’t the best... but the ride quality is something else.
First I wanted to go with the 24E but I will only use 23mm tires maybe 25mm in the back, so I went for the 20T.
And I don’t like the white 24E decals on the new rim.

TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

Makes sense. I thought the 24e looked a little busy too to be honest. I got the schwarz edition, but I wouldn’t of minded the lightweight font in white as it’s quite subtle but nice. Anyways... enjoy the wheels bud, I’m sure they will make you smile! :thumbup:

MrAnderson
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:04 pm

by MrAnderson

I'm just about to sell my lightweight meilenstein obermayer tubular schwarz edition black wheels.
Fantastic at spinning up, response but prefer my Zipp 404's unless on 20% climbs which isnt that often even in Cumbria.

No idea what they would fetch 2nd hand as they rarely appear on ebay etc...

UpFromOne
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

As a lifelong wheelbuilder, I like the approach of the AX-L 25T. On the Extralite SP Cyber series hubs, I prefer to replace the radial side of the fronts, and depending on the customer weight, the disc side of the rears, with bladed Sapim Super Spokes. With that I have built 835g disc road wheels.

One item of note that I didn't see anyone point out, is that on the 25T (as opposed to the older 24T), a 25mm tub will glue up nicely without any gaps on the rim, but tires 23 and below will leave a small gap (usually on one side only) between the tire and the very edge of the rim.

vanBMC24
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:15 am

by vanBMC24

One question to every lightweight wheel owner:
Did you buy the optionial wheel protection service wich cost about 225€ per wheel?
Make it sense? Or is the chance to destroy a spoke etc. not that high? I only mean during normal riding, no racing, crash, etc.?

Wookski
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

vanBMC24 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:37 am
One question to every lightweight wheel owner:
Did you buy the optionial wheel protection service wich cost about 225€ per wheel?
Make it sense? Or is the chance to destroy a spoke etc. not that high? I only mean during normal riding, no racing, crash, etc.?
My bikes are fully insured which covers wheels- living in Australia if anything happens I will claim wheel replacement. That being said they are very strong and breaking a spoke would be extremely difficult.

da123
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

I have the LW Obermayers and have recently purchased the Extralite CarboClimbs and the AX Ultra 38t.

Weight wise (as weighed by me) :
Obermayers : 955g set
CarboClimbs : 758g set
Ultra 38t : 990g set

I've not had chance to ride the carboclimbs yet, but I've ridden the 38ts for around 100 miles so have enough for a first impression. I'm very familiar with Obermayers as I've had them for 4 years. This comparison is therefore between the LW Obermayers and the Ultra 38ts.

Braking : I'd say they are on a par. Both are good in the dry once bedded in. Not ridden the 38t in the wet yet though. LWs aren't particularly good / bad in the wet. You do have to use the LW pads though, you'll void your warranty otherwise.

Stiffness : Although the LWs test stiffer, I find the 38ts plenty stiff enough. In fact they have a really nice, stiff feel. They are noticeably stiffer than my Schmolke 45 TLOs and my ENVE 4.5s. The LWs are stiff, and accelerate great, but not subjectively any better than the 38ts.

Durability / Robustness : It is obviously impossible to make a judgement on the AX wheels after such a short period of time. Having said that, their rims were one of only 5 to pass Tour magazine's impact test, which the LW's failed. They actually feel more 'robust' on the bike, not delicate at all. The LWs do feel quite fragile to me, and I've had quite a few issues over the years. Specifically, the carbon has delaminated twice on the rim bed when removing tub tape to reveal the foam core (the carbon there is a very thin layer), and stones etc. will put dents in the rim walls quite easily. I don't think the LWs are robust at all in summary. This is quite a big point for me. It just erodes your confidence in the wheels.

Bearings : I mention this specifically because I've had a lot of issues with the bearings in my LWs. There is a known issue (which LW have acknowledged) relating to the tolerance between their hubs and the ceramicspeed bearings. This causes the bearings to stiffen up significantly. LW claim to have fixed this issue with different CS bearings, but the latest replacement front wheel I received (replacement number 5, believe it or not) repeated the same issue. Can't comment on the bearings in the Extralite hubs as don't have enough miles on them.

Cornering : The LWs corner fine, but my experience is that wider profile wheels (like the 38t, which while not super wide is wider), corner noticeably better. I have done a lot of big mountain descents, and I find the LWs too skittish and nervous on these unless the road is absolutely billiard table smooth. Even with the limited mileage on the AX, I would say they corner with much more confidence than the LWs.

Climbing : the LWs are a great climbing wheel, no doubt, but I would anticipate that the AX wheels will be on a par, given they are same ballpark in weight and nice and stiff.

Crosswind handling : The 38ts are noticeably better. The LWs can be scary on mountain descents if it is windy. The 38s feel very stable in general. The LWs are deeper of course, but the slab side does not do them any favours in this respect.

Aero : difficult to say. Both feel better than a shallow rimmed wheel. How they test I've no idea but I can't subjectively notice any difference in how they hold speed. I suspect they are pretty much on a par. The 38ts have a more up to date design, but the LWs are 9mm deeper.

Cost : Bit pointless to comment, but knowing what I do now, I couldn't justify the additional cost of the LWs. In fact my initial impression is that the AX is a better all round wheel. This does of course need caveating by the limited mileage I have on the AX. I couldn't hand on heart recommend the LWs however, purely due to the QC issues and the fact that they are very fragile. They are great in perfect weather on perfect road surfaces when the bearings are actually spinning, but in the 4 years I've had them, they've probably been back with LW for warranty problems for at least 6 months. LW have been responsive and have not quibbled at all over replacements / repairs etc. (so this has cost me nothing extra), but it really hasn't been acceptable for such a high priced product.

KCookie
Posts: 1963
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

vanBMC24 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:37 am
One question to every lightweight wheel owner:
Did you buy the optionial wheel protection service wich cost about 225€ per wheel?
Make it sense? Or is the chance to destroy a spoke etc. not that high? I only mean during normal riding, no racing, crash, etc.?
I've never worried about it as I have great bike insurance.
You give Lightweight €225 per wheel then still have to pay a large portion towards a new wheel. My insurance just gives me the money for a new wheel minus $500 excess. So much better.

TurboTommy
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:32 pm

by TurboTommy

Same. My bikes are covered under my house insurance. Busting a spoke without insurance must be a painful thing...

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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