Light Bicycle wheel rims?

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Rider27
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:51 am

by Rider27

Hexsense wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:09 pm
Rider27 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:52 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:39 pm
AustinPT wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:11 am
hmmmm....food for thought. I have a while before I buy, so I'll keep looking for EPS owners with more modern wheel. I would just hate to go through the whole process, get the wheels and then find out they don't fit. What would 17.9mm internal and GP5k 25mm work out to in actual width?
Food for thought. 23c tire on 21mm internal width is much much more aero than 25c tire on regular 17.9mm internal width rim (assume normal 26-27mm-ish external width for 17.9mm ID rim). And the tire measure similarly.

I'd say, go for 36,46. Then if 25c doesn't fit, roll back to 23c.
I didn't know I could run 23mm tyre on 21mm wide int rim. You sure it does the job?
It certainly DID the job for me. Vittoria Corsa G+, Continental GP4000sII, Schwalbe One, Continental Attack 3 are among the list of tires I use 23c on 21mm internal width rim. I don't own 21mm internal width rim anymore though. My current set-up have Continental GP5000 25c on 23mm internal width rim on my front tire. it outlived two 28c rear tires already so no excessive wear from stretching it. If anything, it allow lower tire pressure which extend the tire lifespan.

Afterall, Cannondale spec 23mm tire on their Knot64 rim which has 21mm int out from the factory. So, it works.
Allright it's a nice thing to known.
I'll definitely try it.
Thx

AustinPT
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:08 am

by AustinPT

Rider27 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:19 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:09 pm
Rider27 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:52 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:39 pm


Food for thought. 23c tire on 21mm internal width is much much more aero than 25c tire on regular 17.9mm internal width rim (assume normal 26-27mm-ish external width for 17.9mm ID rim). And the tire measure similarly.

I'd say, go for 36,46. Then if 25c doesn't fit, roll back to 23c.
I didn't know I could run 23mm tyre on 21mm wide int rim. You sure it does the job?
It certainly DID the job for me. Vittoria Corsa G+, Continental GP4000sII, Schwalbe One, Continental Attack 3 are among the list of tires I use 23c on 21mm internal width rim. I don't own 21mm internal width rim anymore though. My current set-up have Continental GP5000 25c on 23mm internal width rim on my front tire. it outlived two 28c rear tires already so no excessive wear from stretching it. If anything, it allow lower tire pressure which extend the tire lifespan.

Afterall, Cannondale spec 23mm tire on their Knot64 rim which has 21mm int out from the factory. So, it works.
Allright it's a nice thing to known.
I'll definitely try it.
Thx

Update: the LBS tried mounting a Roval CLX (21 internal/28 external) on my Colnago EPS, using my tires (Conti GP 4k in 25mm). There was enough height clearance, but even with the brakes wide open, there wasn't enough space for the width. He said he could try a bunch of modifications, but it would be a compromise. So I will go with the R35 with 18/25 internal/external and play around with Conti 5k 23's vs 25's. Appreciate the input/advice here.

by Weenie


emotive
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

AustinPT wrote: Update: the LBS tried mounting a Roval CLX (21 internal/28 external) on my Colnago EPS, using my tires (Conti GP 4k in 25mm). There was enough height clearance, but even with the brakes wide open, there wasn't enough space for the width. He said he could try a bunch of modifications, but it would be a compromise. So I will go with the R35 with 18/25 internal/external and play around with Conti 5k 23's vs 25's. Appreciate the input/advice here.
GP4000 25mm mounted on the 21mm internal width Roval rim - The Width as Measured would be 28.9mm. We know from your Enve measurements in previous posts that 28.9mm would not fit your frame.

GP5000 25mm on the Roval would have fit and been an exact demonstration of the clearance you would achieve with AR36.

GP5000 25mm on R35 will be a lot narrower than the test at the bike shop.

jencvo
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:01 pm

by jencvo

Does anybody have any cues on what the aero advantage of LB AR56 would be over LB R45? I own R45s and I'm not sure whether upgrading to AR56 would be worth it or not.

choochoo46
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

jencvo wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:37 am
Does anybody have any cues on what the aero advantage of LB AR56 would be over LB R45? I own R45s and I'm not sure whether upgrading to AR56 would be worth it or not.
If you look at the Hambini wheel testing results (and putting aside the differences b/w wheel brands) the overall trend is that the deeper the wheel the more aero. But if you look at the deepest (80mm) to the most narrow (28mm) there's only a 20w difference at 30kph. It's about a 180w delta at 50kph.

So if you do most of your riding at 18mph, then going from 45s to 56s might save you a watt or two!

https://www.hambini.com/testing-to-find ... le-wheels/

emotive
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:40 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by emotive

jencvo wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:37 am
Does anybody have any cues on what the aero advantage of LB AR56 would be over LB R45? I own R45s and I'm not sure whether upgrading to AR56 would be worth it or not.
If you are running 23mm or 24mm Width as Measured (WAM) tyres on your R45 then there is maybe 5W aero advantage moving to 28mm to 29mm WAM tyres on AR56.
If you are running 25mm to 28mm Width (as Measured) tyres on your R45 then there is maybe 10W aero advantage moving to AR56.

There are also rolling resistance and hysteresis benefits of running wider wheels and tyres, as recently packaged up as part of the Zipp total system efficiency launch of their new 303 Firecrest wheels last month.

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Noctiluxx
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

I'm about to order a pair of Falcon Pro AR35 disk wheelset and would like to what is the best shipping options for U.S based customers?
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

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ms6073
Posts: 3157
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Those wheels should be available from the Light Bicycle's US website, but if not available with your options, while it would be the most expensive, if DHL Express is available, that would probably be the most expdeient and reliable.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

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Noctiluxx
Posts: 1093
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

ms6073 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:23 pm
Those wheels should be available from the Light Bicycle's US website, but if not available with your options, while it would be the most expensive, if DHL Express is available, that would probably be the most expdeient and reliable.
They are global and offered with Fedex shipping at around $175.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2019 Trek Madone SLR (Rage Red)
2019 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Chameleon Blue)
2019 Cervelo R5 Disk (Team Sunweb)
2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 0

User avatar
ms6073
Posts: 3157
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

by ms6073

Yep, sorry, thought I had seen them available on the US site.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

Orbital
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 am
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC

by Orbital

FedEx took less than a week to get to my door. It’s taken me longer to find time to mount tires and swap a cassette over than it did for the shipping.

choochoo46
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

emotive wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:45 am
jencvo wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:37 am
Does anybody have any cues on what the aero advantage of LB AR56 would be over LB R45? I own R45s and I'm not sure whether upgrading to AR56 would be worth it or not.
If you are running 23mm or 24mm Width as Measured (WAM) tyres on your R45 then there is maybe 5W aero advantage moving to 28mm to 29mm WAM tyres on AR56.
If you are running 25mm to 28mm Width (as Measured) tyres on your R45 then there is maybe 10W aero advantage moving to AR56.

There are also rolling resistance and hysteresis benefits of running wider wheels and tyres, as recently packaged up as part of the Zipp total system efficiency launch of their new 303 Firecrest wheels last month.
Actually, assuming an even transition from tire to rim, the narrower the tire, the more aero. The same Hambini article shows that the more narrow the tire is faster.
https://www.hambini.com/testing-to-find ... le-wheels/ (about 2/3 down the page)

And a recent bicycle rolling resistance article show that for the same level of comfort, rolling resistance is the same across different tire widths. So while you can use a wider tire at a higher pressure to get better rolling resistance, your comfort level would drop.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... son#drop45

So putting aside the gains in wheel depth b/w the R45 and the AR56, you could run a 23mm GP5000 in the R45 and probably be faster than a 25mm or 28mm GP5000 in the AR56.

Finally this also depends on the type of roads you ride on. If they're well maintained and very smooth a narrow tire is fine. If you have poor roads, then a wider tire will help a lot.
Last edited by choochoo46 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Steve Curtis
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

I placed my order today for two wheels sets.

The wait begins

jencvo
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:01 pm

by jencvo

choochoo46 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:03 am
emotive wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:45 am
jencvo wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:37 am
Does anybody have any cues on what the aero advantage of LB AR56 would be over LB R45? I own R45s and I'm not sure whether upgrading to AR56 would be worth it or not.
If you are running 23mm or 24mm Width as Measured (WAM) tyres on your R45 then there is maybe 5W aero advantage moving to 28mm to 29mm WAM tyres on AR56.
If you are running 25mm to 28mm Width (as Measured) tyres on your R45 then there is maybe 10W aero advantage moving to AR56.

There are also rolling resistance and hysteresis benefits of running wider wheels and tyres, as recently packaged up as part of the Zipp total system efficiency launch of their new 303 Firecrest wheels last month.
Actually, assuming an even transition from tire to rim, the narrower the tire, the more aero. The same Hambini article shows that the more narrow the tire is faster.
https://www.hambini.com/testing-to-find ... le-wheels/ (about 2/3 down the page)

And a recent bicycle rolling resistance article show that for the same level of comfort, rolling resistance is the same across different tire widths. So while you can use a wider tire at a higher pressure to get better rolling resistance, your comfort level would drop.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... son#drop45

So putting aside the gains in wheel depth b/w the R45 and the AR56, you could run a 23mm GP5000 in the R45 and probably be faster than a 25mm or 28mm GP5000 in the AR56.

Finally this also depends on the type of roads you ride on. If they're well maintained and very smooth a narrow tire is fine. If you have poor roads, then a wider tire will help a lot.
I live in Virginia and they repave our roads every year so I run 25s at around 90psi (I'm 84kg) and I'm very comfortable on the bike. My thinking behind going deeper was for the aero advantage as the wheels are still light enough for all local climbs, I'm just not sure the difference is big enough to justify it.

choochoo46
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

[/quote]
I live in Virginia and they repave our roads every year so I run 25s at around 90psi (I'm 84kg) and I'm very comfortable on the bike. My thinking behind going deeper was for the aero advantage as the wheels are still light enough for all local climbs, I'm just not sure the difference is big enough to justify it.
[/quote]

From the Hambini tests it looks like there's about a 10 watt difference b/w the AR56 and a typical 45mm deep rim. So assume 20 watts for both wheels.

So that could be the difference b/w getting dropped from your local group ride or not.

In terms of best bang for the buck, you've probably considered the following:

0. Trainer road subscription to increase your FTP
1. Bike fit to dial in your position
2. Aero helmet
3. Aero clothing
4. Since you ride on smooth roads, go with 23mm GP5000s with latex tubes on your 25mm wide rims
5. Narrower handlebars
6. Waxed chain
etc.

by Weenie


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