Light Bicycle wheel rims?

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
peted76
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:30 pm

by peted76

RideSki wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:55 pm
Hi all :waving: WW newbie here, has been intresting reading this thread and all the others RE Chinese/Taiwan rims. As I'm on a budget I think this is the way forward for me, although I'm thinking of investing some of that saving in higher end hubs (i.e better than DT Swiss 350).

After some thought I have decided the WR46 from LB would be a better choice for me over the WR56. I currently have the stock Reynolds AR58 with tyres 25R/23F, they have 19mm internal width and there appears to be plenty of space to go wider/higher front and back. This is for an Aeroad.

My reservation atm is whether a 25mm Conti 5kTL would come up much wider than the external rim width of the WR46 28mm. BRR website measured the 5kTL in 25 as 27mm, and that's on only a 17mm internal rim.

Has anyone got/had a 25mm conti on a 21mm internal rim - be that Light Bicycles or otherwise? The closest mainstream wheel I know of is Roval CL/CLX with their 20.7mm internal. If it did end up 28 or 29mm is there that much penalty by not hitting the 105% rule? Such a shame Conti arent making the GP5kTL in 23mm like they are with the clincher version :noidea:
Someone's posted that a schwable 25mm on a LB56 rim comes up at 29mm. The Conti is a similar size to the schwable accorinding to BRR so should be the same. I'd estimate the LB46 rim and a 25mm Conti would come up at around 27/28mm = ideal for the wheel.
Does your aeroad have odd brakes? A modern Shimano brake opens up beyond 30mm. So none of these wheel/rim/tyre combo's should be a problem.

by Weenie


Hexsense
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

I found the rule of thumb to be only around 0.7mm per 2mm of increased rim width, not full 1mm expansion.
GP5000 runs normal size and smaller than GP4000sII anyway, the GP5000 25c is only a tiny bit wider than GP4000sII.
There shouldn't be a problem fitting it on bike that support GP4000sII 25c on narrow rim.
peted76 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:02 pm
Someone's posted that a schwable 25mm on a LB56 rim comes up at 29mm. The Conti is a similar size to the schwable accorinding to BRR so should be the same. I'd estimate the LB46 rim and a 25mm Conti would come up at around 27/28mm = ideal for the wheel.
Does your aeroad have odd brakes? A modern Shimano brake opens up beyond 30mm. So none of these wheel/rim/tyre combo's should be a problem.
Schwalbe run more in line with 4000sII than 5000. The GP5000 is smaller. 27.5-28mm would be my guess too.
As the GP4000sII 23c is at 27.3mm on my (no longer owned) 21mm internal width LB.

RideSki
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:27 am

by RideSki

Thanks all.. With 0.7mm actual increase per 1mm internal it might just be ok then....only one way to find out.

Pete - normal R8000 direct mount brakes on the Aeroad. I'm looking at the WR46 because I don't want to go as deep as the WR56 - rather than anything to do with rim width. And also because I'm selling the unused stock Reynolds it comes with (58 deep), so would be pointless downsizing 2mm. Whereas 45-50mm is what I wanted, so the WR46 could fit the bill nicely.

Erico- it does indeed seem the Bitex are largely OK, but there's enough posts here from varying wheelbuilders pointing out some of the shortcomings (e.g flange spacings and small bearings). Ultimately if they are cheap, there is a reason (and it's not just Taiwan vs Western manufacturing). If Malcolm Borg says they're not up to scratch then that's enough by my book! It's partly counter intutive going for mid to high end hub with something like a WI T11 - but I'm thinking that in a few years when I'm ready to spend more again I can just get the hubs built onto different rims, so it's kind of a longer term investment.

rides4beer
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

RideSki wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:12 pm
Thanks all.. With 0.7mm actual increase per 1mm internal it might just be ok then....only one way to find out.

Pete - normal R8000 direct mount brakes on the Aeroad. I'm looking at the WR46 because I don't want to go as deep as the WR56 - rather than anything to do with rim width. And also because I'm selling the unused stock Reynolds it comes with (58 deep), so would be pointless downsizing 2mm. Whereas 45-50mm is what I wanted, so the WR46 could fit the bill nicely.

Erico- it does indeed seem the Bitex are largely OK, but there's enough posts here from varying wheelbuilders pointing out some of the shortcomings (e.g flange spacings and small bearings). Ultimately if they are cheap, there is a reason (and it's not just Taiwan vs Western manufacturing). If Malcolm Borg says they're not up to scratch then that's enough by my book! It's partly counter intutive going for mid to high end hub with something like a WI T11 - but I'm thinking that in a few years when I'm ready to spend more again I can just get the hubs built onto different rims, so it's kind of a longer term investment.
I'll be mounting a set of 25mm GP5Ks on LB WR46's as soon as they get here, probably a few weeks (they're supposed to ship out next week). I'm hoping they measure under 28mm, but I have a feeling they won't. If not, I'll prob put a 23mm on the front and keep the 25's for the rear. :thumbup:

ericoschmitt
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

RideSki wrote:
Erico- it does indeed seem the Bitex are largely OK, but there's enough posts here from varying wheelbuilders pointing out some of the shortcomings (e.g flange spacings and small bearings).
I've read about those shortcomings too. As for the small bearings in front hub, you can get the wide version of it, weights 10g more I think, it has bigger bearings. But replacing bearings after a long time shouldn't bother me or you, won't cost much.

As for the flange spacing, I don't mind because I'm riding custom steel and my rear triangle is offset to the right a couple milimiters, so I just asked them to build the wheel offset by 1,5mm and effectively got a more balanced tension. They told me they had already done that as there's a modern MTB that is offset, is it by cannondale? Forgot the name. You can built it with a 16:8 rear hub and get even tension as well. LB didn't have that but you can order rims and spokes and build it yourself. Or maybe ship a 16:8 rear hub to them and ask them to build it? Should work, but I didn't bother as I have these hubs built with an alloy rim with the same offset tactics and it works.

And why not run Vittoria CS 23mm on the front wheel like I'm doing? They are a bit faster, Tom Anhalt measured them to be the most aero stuff (although that was before GP5k release), and unless you are riding with 50% of your weight on each wheel like me, usually you have more weight on the rear wheel anyway, so you can get away with a more fragile front tire. I consider getting a gp5k rear to use it most of the time and save the CS for some races only, but I don't plan changing the front for anything else unless the race has cobbles, when I might just use CS 25mm to protect the rim from hitting stones. Right now I'm actually using CS full time for training just to find out how long they will last and how likely they are to puncture, because if I'll race them, I want to know what are the risks involved, if any.

RideSki
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:27 am

by RideSki

Good info. thanks!

Yes - I literally thought of the Vittoria last night, a quick Google revealed comments on fragility - but also the speed! Unfortunaely UK country lanes (where races take place) are mostly awful for general surface degradation/chippings - even in the dry. If I go with the WR46 it's definately a consideration. I'm now umming and ahhing if to drop to a 19/19.5mm internal instead. I've 19 IRW currently and it's more than enough fo my needs (mainly do road races, not crits).

I'll want to race the wheels, but also train (summer only) on them - hence the appeal of having the GP5Ks durability.

Multebear
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

Hexsense wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:14 pm
The company that is not sending waranty replacement is Farsport.
Huh?? Not true. At least not according to the two guys I know, that needed replacement rims.

Hexsense
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Multebear wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:33 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:14 pm
The company that is not sending waranty replacement is Farsport.
Huh?? Not true. At least not according to the two guys I know, that needed replacement rims.
Context, man, context. Reading comprehension.
I'm not saying they never send replacement to anyone.
My reply in July 2017 is for user wilwil 's question of which company had recent case of ignoring warranty claim. The case is in "Open mold wide profile carbon wheels" topic of that time. The answer for that question is Farsport.

Multebear
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

Hexsense wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:20 pm
Multebear wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:33 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:14 pm
The company that is not sending waranty replacement is Farsport.
Huh?? Not true. At least not according to the two guys I know, that needed replacement rims.
Context, man, context. Reading comprehension.
I'm not saying they never send replacement to anyone.
My reply in July 2017 is for user wilwil 's question of which company had recent case of ignoring warranty claim. The case is in "Open mold wide profile carbon wheels" topic of that time. The answer for that question is Farsport.
July 2018 to be precise. Not that it matters.

I se the context, but I still don't think your answer is quite fair to farsports or any other company based on that.

One guys experience with a certain company doesn't describe the company's warranty policy as a whole. I'm not familiar with that one case of ignoring warranty. But like with everything else you read on the big internet, don't jump to conclusions about a whole company based on the experience of one single guy. And don't either regarding the two guys that I know of. You need a lot more data than three guys´ experiences.

Not out to start af big discussion and derail this topic. Just saying, that the experience of one single individual doesn't provide enough data.

Hexsense
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Okay, noted. Yeah, July 2018.
But please, everyone, don't inteprete my reply more than what i wrote.
Someone asked which company that recently had bad report of the warranty issue. I answered because i knew which case he talked about.
In that case it was Farsport, not Light-bicycle. That's all its matter in this topic about Light-Bicycle wheelset. And that's it. I'm not storming or generalizing Farsport for bad warranty or anything. Just clearify which company is involved in that case (which is not Light-Bicycle).

However, i'll edit the reply to be clearer anyway.
Last edited by Hexsense on Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RideSki
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:27 am

by RideSki

Researching a bit more and it seems that WR46CO2 with 21mm internal width will not neccesarily put a GP5k TL (25) out of the 105% rule on a 28mm external rim

Measured 26.7mm on Hunts 21.33 internal here https://bikerumor.com/2018/11/21/first- ... -tl-tires/

Measured 26.90 on 19.6mm here https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/gp-5000-tubeless-data

Although I don't understand in this case why the narrower internal rim measured the wider tyre (both stated 90PSI). Unless the differences in measuring method where just very different?

rides4beer
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

RideSki wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:43 pm
Researching a bit more and it seems that WR46CO2 with 21mm internal width will not neccesarily put a GP5k TL (25) out of the 105% rule on a 28mm external rim

Measured 26.7mm on Hunts 21.33 internal here https://bikerumor.com/2018/11/21/first- ... -tl-tires/

Measured 26.90 on 19.6mm here https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/gp-5000-tubeless-data

Although I don't understand in this case why the narrower internal rim measured the wider tyre (both stated 90PSI). Unless the differences in measuring method where just very different?
That's what I'm hoping! My 46's are built and on the way, have a set of 25mm GP5Ks waiting (not TL tho).

They came out lighter than I expected too, ww bonus! :thumbup:
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Beaver
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

rides4beer wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:54 pm
They came out lighter than I expected too, ww bonus! :thumbup:
I start to think they state a higher than average weight, so that nobody is dissapointed. Has anyone seen an overweight LB rim?

My 440g RR36C02 rims came in at ~425g... And you can always ask to get a light one. ;)

ericoschmitt
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:47 pm

by ericoschmitt

Beaver wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:48 pm
rides4beer wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:54 pm
They came out lighter than I expected too, ww bonus! :thumbup:
I start to think they state a higher than average weight, so that nobody is dissapointed. Has anyone seen an overweight LB rim?

My 440g RR36C02 rims came in at ~425g... And you can always ask to get a light one. ;)

That's smart tactics, and I really appreciate if they are doing it. I got SO mad with all the overweight parts I got when building that bike!!! Like the tires, 23mm CS is claimed to be 205g and came 225 and 230 each. Stem, fork, EDCO cassette, even the tubes of the frame. Everything overweight, and got me wondering "$ per g at this point costs a lot, which of these companies are going to pay for that???"

One company that came bang on for the weight was KCNC, seat post and CB1 brakes. I had to give up the 165g brakes for these wide rims, but I'll sell those and get something that opens wide and is lighter. 317g for my entry level campy skeletons now, argh!

Campy too respects the weights generally, some parts a bit under some a bit over, but close enough. Only the record hubs of another wheelset came with ridiculously heavy skewers.

by Weenie


User avatar
Beaver
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm

by Beaver

That was the reason, why the weight listings on this and other sites were originally initiated. ;) But in times of 8kg aero-disc bikes maybe this doesn't matter to many anymore. ;)

Maybe you can get your hands on used TRP R970 SL brakes - those open wide enough for 30mm wide rims and weight is "acceptable" with 226g for the set. ;)

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