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overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:00 am
by JoO
I recently built a wheelset with velocity quill rims.
Paired with vittoria Corsa G's they have transformed my bike.

I managed to get hold of a bitex hubset at a sale and I am looking to build an extra set.

For this build I would also like to use very wide rims.

Here is a list of the wide alloy rims I could find:

Velocity Quill 622-21
http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/quill-622
real weight of the rim 477 instead of 465gr
Brake track is very small - the brake pad has to be aligned perfectly
about 100 EUR

Hed Belgium plus 622-20.5
https://www.hedcycling.com/belgium-rim-brake-clincher/
good reviews but expensive 150 EUR
don't know if the weight is accurate at 465 gr

JRA LARK 20 622-20
Very likely a rebranded rim. Does anybody know what the OEM rim is?
http://www.justridingalong.com/jra-lark ... -7934.html
claimed weight 470 gr
Does anybody know what the OEM rim is?
price 95 EUR high shipping costs

Fratelli FX 2035 AIR 622-20
http://fratelli.tw/fx2035air.php
no reviews. impossible to buy
claimed weight 480 seems imposisble with the 35 mm depth

Pacenti Forza rims 622-20
https://pacenticycledesign.com/collecti ... -front-rim
read some mixed reviews
claimed weight 470
about 110 EUR

easton R90-SL 622-19.5
https://www.eastoncycling.com/products/ ... r90-sl-rim
not available in 20H drilling
claimed weight 455
about 140 EUR

Are there any other very wide alloy rims that I have not mentioned?

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:10 am
by nachetetm
Boyd altamonts are 19.86 mm wide, Kinlin XR 22/26/31 and Mavic open pro UST are 19 mm wide and Aforce AL33 are 19.6 mm . I'm sure there are more, those are the ones I remember.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:10 am
by Weenie

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:18 pm
by WinterRider
nachetetm wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:10 am
Boyd altamonts are 19.86 mm wide, Kinlin XR 22/26/31 and Mavic open pro UST are 19 mm wide and Aforce AL33 are 19.6 mm . I'm sure there are more, those are the ones I remember.
The Kinlin's go 24mm outside width... super easy to build a strong, round wheel w no weight penalty. Best value in rims... anywhere.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:31 am
by mpulsiv
In case you haven’t seen death match of Boyd Altamont vs. AForce Al33 https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... force-al33

Inner width: AForce 19.75mm/Boyd 19.35mm
Outer width (max): AForce 26.5mm/Boyd 24.75
Depth: AForce 32.2mm/Boyd 29.5mm
Weight: AForce 495g/Boyd 502g

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:09 pm
by MikeD
I've got the Velocity Quill on a Ritchey Swiss Cross. Big mistake. No clearance for the pads. Should have gone with something narrower like DT 460s.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:55 pm
by bm0p700f
Kinlin always wins. All the other rims are just more expensive with doing the job any better.

The only thing wrong with the Forza is for the money you pay the Kinlin are often as round and flatter. The heds are too expensive to brake on but they are 465g reliably and build in lovely wheels. The Easton rim is expensive enough that you'll think twice about braking to avoid that car by which point it too late you've hit it.

The quill is so wide it needs 28mm tyres really which means they won't fit in every bike. 21mm internal width is really for wide gravel tyres but those bikes use disc brakes.

For road tyres 19mm internal width seems about right.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:32 pm
by bm0p700f
That jra rim looks similar to a novatec rim on one of there cheaper wheelsets. Still not sure who makes it though.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:10 pm
by NovemberDave
HEDs and Eastons are great rims which will build more consistently better wheels than Kinlins. You can build great wheels with Kinlins, but time after time the HEDs and Eastons are absolutely spot on. Saying that they're too expensive to brake on is a little ridiculous as they are way less expensive than many factory wheels, certainly way less expensive than any carbon I'd consider using (which for rim brake clinchers is not many), and their braking surfaces are more durable than Kinlins. They also dent more easily than either HED or Easton. I have not experienced firsthand but have heard from a very reliable source who sees more Kinlins than just about anyone that they've had a much higher failure rate than usual lately. Making the blanket statement that Kinlins win every time regardless of parameters or budget is much much much too broad for me to agree with at all.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:59 pm
by bm0p700f
I have seen no failures in service with kinlin XR22/31 rims. All rims dent, the holes over here are frequent therefore it make sense to ride something that is cheap to replace now. Nice wheels and cheap wheels get trashed all the time. I like the HED and Easton rims but it hard to justify the extra expense when a wheel with a Kinlin is as round and flat as a wheel with a HED or Easton rim. While kinlins may wear a bit faster its not three times the rate. That my problem. I look at wheels often from a cost/benefit point of view. If money is no object then HED rims can be a good option. For most people money is tight and therefore a pair of rims that cost as much as a decent wheelset is too much.

It's been unusually dry in the U.K this year but that will change, it already has. Normally alloy rim brake rims (fronts) last me 3000 to 5000 miles for clincher whether its Pacenti, DT Swiss or Kinlin. Tubular rims last longer for some reason. That's in part because I use my alloy rim brake wheels when it wetter. So to use HED rims in those conditions would be expensive.

I advise people to get these rims solely for the looks as they do build into nice solid wheels. They look great and they are good rims. you can say they are better than the Kinlins in some ways but in the real world you won't be any faster because you're on a HED rim, your wheels won't have longer spoke life (the rim will wear out first) and it won't be any rounder or straighter.

The one thing I don't like about the HED rims though is its tubeless compatibility. Compressed air is needed to get the tubeless tyre to inflate often which is o.k but the deal breaker for me is the fact that the tubeless tyre unseats at very low pressures meaning if you get a big puncture you will have to resort to a tube as the seal will be broken. For such an expensive rim any shortcoming is a real downer.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:24 am
by NovemberDave
Well, we have different experiences and different perspectives and disagree on this. My simple statement is that Kinlins don’t always win. Nothing always wins. No harm no foul. Enjoy life.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:19 pm
by Eleven21
Have you considered the DT Swiss R 460? I ride with a couple of chaps at the club who’ve been very happy with them. They’re only 23mm wide (so not as wide as the HED Belgian Plus rims) They about half the price of he HED’s but with very similar quality (apparently).

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:05 pm
by bm0p700f
The hed rims over here are £150 min, if the retailer fancies making almost nothing. The DT r460 rim cheaper than half the price. Try 1/4 to 1/5 of the price but I have had roundness problems with the r460 so it's a rim I avoid now.

That's what November Dave is missing. In the u. K hed rims are very expensive. 180 to 200 usd. I don't think the he'd importer even likes selling the rims. They have said numerous times they are a wheel manufacturer not a rim retailer. One wonders why they sell the rims then.

I have just built with one. The rear with tension at 1250n (washers have been used) +/- 30n on the ds and a smaller variance on the nds ( but Im at the limit of what can be relabily measured with the sapim gauge as small amounts of spoke twist affect the reading more), there is 0.45mm of up and down movement. I had it rounder but with more nds tension variance. Therefore I'll stick to the tighter tension variance as that's what maximises spoke life. A Kinlin rim relabily builds up to the same roundness or better and that's why I don't consider the hed to be better made. It just very pretty, very well finished and more expensive to me. Which suits some but not many given the u. K pricing.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:56 am
by MisterMuncher
I have 3 sets of alloy wheels. Hed Ardennes+ Black (factory Belgium+ with Exalith-alike coating), Pacenti SL23/Bitex and Kinlin XR-Bitex.

The Kinlin and HED have CX-Ray and the Pacenti has Lasers. Weight-wise, there's not a tremendous amount in it. 50-60g bottom to top. I've had each set tensioned and trued by a local guy I trust, so in that regard, build quality is largely controlled. All things considered, The HED are the best, no trouble getting tyres on and sealed, stiff, round and take plenty of grief. Braking is excellent, wet and dry, finishing is absolutely excellent. The Pacenti are nice enough, too, though noticeably less well finished. The Kinlins are OK. Despite the supposedly stiffer spokes, they've always exhibited more play and sway than the Pacenti set at the rear (and the front, despite having 2 more spokes than the HED, is nothing to write home about). Could be a duff rim, but my guy reckons they're not out of spec. The tyres are biggest on the Kinlin (really marginal for clearance) and smallest on the Pacenti.

There's not a huge difference overall, but I'd certainly know one from the other in a blind test. As far as being worth the extra coin over the Kinlin, The HED definitely isn't at list price. At the ex-display/minor cosmetic damage price I paid, though, that's a different story.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:05 am
by bm0p700f
You said the Kinlin rim. Which one. You say the spokes are the same as the hed rims but then say the spoke are stiffer at the end. Sorry to nit pick.

To have a rim of comparable stiffness to the belgium+ it would need to be the xr26t. The 22t is not as stiff and the xr31t is very stiff but because of that I think it need stiffer spokes than lasers or cx rays at the rear or brake rub can be an issue.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:34 pm
by MisterMuncher
Apologies for the lack of clarity. It's an XR22. The spoke comparison was between the Lasers on the Pacenti wheelset. The HED has fewer spokes.

They're not bad wheels by any stretch, and perfectly decent for most purposes, the other two sets just up the ante a little. FWIW, I don't find any of them as stiff as a set of TB14 on Ultegra with 32/32 plain spokes, but they're much heavier, narrower and obviously not tubeless. Horses, courses and all that.

Re: overview of very wide alloy rims (> 19 mm) - rim brake

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:34 pm
by Weenie