Road tubeless ... components not working together

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

Next tubeless experiment is Ultra ll's 25mm.. wire bead. Have a set of those in 32 mounted... front holding very well.. rear is problematic... bead and value are tight via a water tank check. Sidewall pinholes... expected though. Fresh increased dose of the pumpkin stuff and still it's seeping........fine for an extended ride. Like a tubed latex setup... air before the trip.

Going to coat the 25's on the inside to seal the porous material... but what to use?
Latex paint? Possibly some flavor of aerosol rubber (?) at the menards like stores?

25's.. want to compare roll out vs the 25 Pro Ones.

by Weenie


CallumRD1
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by CallumRD1

WinterRider wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:47 am
Geoff wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:05 pm
I would not recommend that, however, as the whole point of running tubeless for road is to take advantage of its self-sealing capabilities. I think that you need to try it.
For me... very few flats. In my world adding weight via the drying of the latex makes no sense... and w the pumpkin sealant it dries whenever... meaning one should top regularly. Before I'll go that route I'll run tubes.

I'm set for roadside repair.. glue, inner tube slices w small screwdriver to insert. Have the 'worm' kit in the mail.

Did 68+ on the Schwalbe Pro Ones yesterday.. best tire buy I've made to date.

When the sealant dries the carrier solvent (usually water) is evaporating off. The mass of the dried latex from 30 g of liquid of sealant is typically only a couple of grams. When topping off sealant levels (30g/wheel) every 3 months the weight of the wheelset isn't increasing by 60g each time, only by a few grams.

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ms6073
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by ms6073

peted76 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:31 pm
Overall I'm not that impressed with Orange seal, it's a bit 'thin' and failed to seal a mates tyre I set up for him the other day.
I think that this might depend on the climate where it is used. Here in the high heat and humidity along the Texas gulf coast, Orange Seal Endurance works very well with Schwalbe Pro One tubeless (700x28c) but has to be refreshed on a regular basis. For that reason, I installed the Milkit tubeless valves and use the Milkit injector which helps streamline the process and based on the Orange Seal residue on my bike after a couple rides the past few months, has 3-times sealed punctures without my even realizing it.
Michael - The Anaerobic Threshold is neither...

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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

CallumRD1 wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:36 pm
When the sealant dries the carrier solvent (usually water) is evaporating off. The mass of the dried latex from 30 g of liquid of sealant is typically only a couple of grams. When topping off sealant levels (30g/wheel) every 3 months the weight of the wheelset isn't increasing by 60g each time, only by a few grams.
I can agree w your math per added weight.. but .. how does the water evaporate in a sealed system like the enclosure of a tire?

I know.. well ...per my cranky nature when it comes to marketing some of the junk we buy today in all walks of life. I know.. well again.. I've been very hard on the orange colored sealant she*t... I did in fact rephrase that to 'pumpkin colored sealant she*t'. But.. when one can't even get a whiff of a response via a courteous inquiry/s as to 'what am I doing wrong with your product'... then.. call it what it is.

FINISH LINE... has sealed over dryed 'PSS' in one trial wheel. Finish Line tec stated to be sure the PSS has dried.

And... be interesting to actually weigh the weight increase of the PSS residue... I'll wager more than a few grams.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Obviously a tubeless tire isn't completely sealed since it loses 1-2psi per day. Also every time you use your pump you are opening up the system and allowing pressurized gas to escape, including water vapor.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

IRC make some of specialised tubeless tyres. In fact the rbcc tyre IRC make is made for specialised maybe with a different tread pattern. IRC, hutinson/Mavic and schwalbe tyres all work well with Shimano, Mavic, kinlin, pacenti and campagnolo rims. My own carbon rims are good too as is the Ambrosio P20.

There is nothing complex about this. You just can't wing it. This is why I stick to selling just one brand of tubeless tyre because the compatability is excellent. Tomhatesyou had an issue with a IRC tyre but issue was his enve rim I think. The bead hook on these rims are the problem. Add to that the alloy molds they use and variability this creates in the rim and you have a disaster waiting to happen. IRC reference Shimano and campagnolo rims when designing their tyres. Rims that differs from these two (enve, DT swiss....) Can give a variety of issue when using tubeless tyres.

So any rim that looks like a Mavic UST or Shimano rim is good for tubeless. If it deviates, bead hook radius e.t.c then problems may result.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Winter rider your tubeless woes are all from doing getto tubeless setup. Wire bead tyres should not be used tubeless. Continue ultra II's are not tubeless tyres. Kinlin xr200 rims are not tubeless compatible. Bluntly you are making a rod for your own back. I am not surprised orange seal did not respond. There response is your doing everything wrong and how do you say it without sounding rude. I don't worry about that. I'll just say it how it is.

Tubeless is not a bodge technology. It requires properly designed rims made to tight tollereance and tyres made to work with these rims only.

This goes against the grain in cycling were there is a long tradition of that will do.

gbrown
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by gbrown

I've recently mounted Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless tyres (23c and 25c) on Shimano Dura Ace 9000 Tubeless ready wheels and on Bontrager Aeolus wheels. In both cases the tyres fitted by hand, without levers, and I do not have strong fingers! They also both inflated straight away using a Bontrager charge pump and held air for days and weeks before adding any sealant.

This is markedly different to my first experience of tubeless tyres, with Shimano wheels and early Bontrager R3 tyres which leaked like sieves. Later Bontrager R3's were much better, so I guess tubeless tyres have improved considerably over recent years.

I've only ever used Bontrager TLR sealant, and haven't noticed any punctures, so either been lucky or sealed invisibly.

Unfortunately, I've been mainly riding using non tubeless wheels, as I'm still using Powertap wheels while I wait for my new Bontrager Aeolus XXX wheels to arrive. The Powertap wheels have tubed Schwalbe one tyres which have also been puncture free for over a year, if I can risk saying that without tempting fate!

I am a fair weather cyclist! :oops:

Geoff

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

non tubeless tyres were right in 2006. Shimano have had good rim but companies like bontranger had a liberal intrepration of the "standard" at the begining they have since learnt they cant.

The ideal tubeless set up inflates without compressed air but if compressed air is needed it no problem so long as the tyre remains locked to rim at zero pressure. if it does not you have to carry a tube as if you get a proper flat....

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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:55 am
Obviously a tubeless tire isn't completely sealed since it loses 1-2psi per day. Also every time you use your pump you are opening up the system and allowing pressurized gas to escape, including water vapor.
My first series of tubeless.. my first rim went super for seal.. followed my own instincts. It's when I 'slit' the tape hole cover the valve area problems started.. stems toggle and leak air easily when mounted in that manner. Which means the sealant dries...

I cut the valve hole tape clean to the circle edge.. compress the end of the valve firmly by hand and thread on the nut securing the valve.. no leaks. And they stay put w use. Along w refining my tire mounting .. matching tape wrap count to tire fit.. tubeless is working well for me.

Now to find a sealant that does not dry and is reliable reseal<<. Think this R&D.. no reason for the sellers to refine to that degree.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

you use a fine point of a screwdriver to make the hole in the tape. then insert the valve with the top closed. the hole is then the right size and shape.

As you do not remove the tyre once seated except to replace, resealing is not an issue. this is why the tyre must lock to the rim and remain seated at zero pressure. This is the key to avoiding faff. Also this helps stop air leaks as you have a better seal.

The reason why tyres dont reseal easily always after coming of the rim (being removed or unseating because the rim is not properly tubeless), is not the sealant fault, the tyre bead has stretched. This happens to all tubeless tyres so dont remove them except to replace. its really simple.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I heat up the tip of an awl to create the opening in the tape for my valve.

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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:02 pm
you use a fine point of a screwdriver to make the hole in the tape. then insert the valve with the top closed. the hole is then the right size and shape.

As you do not remove the tyre once seated except to replace, resealing is not an issue. this is why the tyre must lock to the rim and remain seated at zero pressure. This is the key to avoiding faff. Also this helps stop air leaks as you have a better seal.

The reason why tyres dont reseal easily always after coming of the rim (being removed or unseating because the rim is not properly tubeless), is not the sealant fault, the tyre bead has stretched. This happens to all tubeless tyres so dont remove them except to replace. its really simple.

Tried same.. air escaped along valve. Now I do as noted and always for check air leaks in water. Have no issues now.. except.. using non tubed tires.. :oops:

Thinking .. of trying .. regular bead road tires tubeless. How.. glue them on.

Tubular like .. tubeless. :smartass:

Any advantage .. other than the opportunity to try another 'speriment... have to see. And.. loosing the wt of the wire bead and added weight of the tubeless tires.

Glue.. ? What flavor?

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

WinterRider wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:10 pm

Thinking .. of trying .. regular bead road tires tubeless. How.. glue them on.

Tubular like .. tubeless. :smartass:

Any advantage .. other than the opportunity to try another 'speriment... have to see. And.. loosing the wt of the wire bead and added weight of the tubeless tires.

Glue.. ? What flavor?
Gorilla Glue, because it has a neat picture of a Gorilla, and it smells and tastes great.
If that doesn't work, JB Weld. If you can't make it work with JB Weld, well... you can't make it work. The head broke off my bass guitar 21 years ago. I fixed it with JB Weld... 21 years and it's still rock solid (or wood solid?).
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

by Weenie


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WinterRider
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by WinterRider

IrrelevantD wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:00 pm
WinterRider wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:10 pm

Thinking .. of trying .. regular bead road tires tubeless. How.. glue them on.

Tubular like .. tubeless. :smartass:

Any advantage .. other than the opportunity to try another 'speriment... have to see. And.. loosing the wt of the wire bead and added weight of the tubeless tires.

Glue.. ? What flavor?
Gorilla Glue, because it has a neat picture of a Gorilla, and it smells and tastes great.
If that doesn't work, JB Weld. If you can't make it work with JB Weld, well... you can't make it work. The head broke off my bass guitar 21 years ago. I fixed it with JB Weld... 21 years and it's still rock solid (or wood solid?).
Musta.. used a batch 'tween your ears .. hey? :up:

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