Lightweight meilenstein 24E schwarz

[Geoff]

Ok, that's nice. Great looking ride.

On the LWs, true, they do not handle crosswinds anywhere nearly as well as 'modern' rim profiles do, but I do not believe that they are dangerous to descend on.

On the tires, ok, yes, the Contis are not the nicest in the world, but they are certainly not complete pigs. I actually like them ad 'daily drivers'. You can always run Dugast or FMB, if you want really nice tires. Personally, I still like 23s best for LWs...

[moyboy]

Agreed. Contis for daily drivers for sure. Never had any problems and they are easy to change vs Pro-Ones which are a pain!

[TurboTommy]

I thought I’d bump this thread just to say how happy I am with these wheels.

Firstly they ride absolutely incredible. I’ve been using them with corsa g’s the last few months and the combo is just great. It’s a real pleasure to use them.

I’ve recently come back from the Pyrenees and I had a chance to put them through their paces so to speak. I was lucky the weather was great everyday, so I never had to reach for the alu back up plan. Firstly the braking track is excellent in my opinion. The best carbon braking track I have personally used although my experience is a bit limited. I can compare them directly to zipp 303 and 404 fc as I’ve used both those wheels on with same ee direct mount brakes. The lightweight is noticeably better although with different pads of course. It really surprised me how grippy they are. I got caught in the rain earlier today and that was a different matter... but in dry conditions I can’t fault them at all.
Next is something that I’ve seen mentioned plenty before but I just thought I’d confirm. And that’s how tough they are. I hit a pothole descending fast and I really thought the wheel would be cracked for sure. It was a nasty bone rattling impact but After stopping to check the rim. No effect at all. Phew!
With regards crosswinds I did have a couple of moments. Nothing too violent, but especially when descending with tree cover, and then coming out into more open valleys. You do become aware of getng pushed around a little. One time it felt like if I tried to compensate to much too soon it would become worse. So i found myself getting squeezed to the side of the road a little. I eased over slowly and it settled down. I’ve had much worse than this on my set of 404’s where I’ve had quite violent wobble. And I think maybe that put me in good stead to be ready for it when it came with the lightweights. But generally I felt very comfortable. It never got really gusty over there to the extreme. So very likely I have worse to come perhaps. But I now feel very confident in the wheels in normal circumstances if you like.

Sorry if that isn’t the most technical write up... but I know lightweights get very mixed feed back generally. So I just thought I’d pitch in to say that I for one am super happy with them. Value for money is probably a different debate. But in terms of satisfaction I am very happy indeed.

[kgt]

Thanks for the review!

[bruno2000]

Anybody experienced the so called new braketrack of the LW's in the rain?
Is it similar to the Mavic and Campagnolo ac3 braketrack? Or not as good?

[TurboTommy]

Anybody experienced the so called new braketrack of the LW's in the rain?
Is it similar to the Mavic and Campagnolo ac3 braketrack? Or not as good?

I’ve not tried the mavic or campag. I can compare it to zipp with black prince pads, which before the lightweights I would say were the best carbon brake track I’ve used. A few days ago it began to rain heavily as I was doing hill repeats. I had to descend Highgate hill, north London, which is relatively short but steep in places, so a good test for stopping power. I pulled the brakes to scrub off the water, release, and pull again. And they bit much nicer than I was expecting. It’s still carbon in wet as opposed to alu. But noticeably better than zipp with black prince. I still wouldn’t want to purposefully go out in the wet on them. But I know I can get home on them if I need to. Cork pads in the wet on the other hand...

[bruno2000]

Thx for the reply.
I rode for many year with the previous version of Meilenstein.
Best wheels evver except when it starts raining.
That's why I changed to Campagnolo Bora Ultra 35.
Heavier and not that stiff but it brakes...

[Calnago]

A couple of weeks ago I got to work with a brand new set of these wheels. A friend had just got a new bike and despite me questioning his wheel choice he admitted he just likes the looks of the Lightweights so got some. I'm totally ok with that, because looks counts, but I warned him that in my experience I've never come across a wheel in the 50mm profile range that handled gusty winds worse than Lightweights. So be it, my advice was heard, but he liked the looks and voila... here they are...

Before the pics, I figured you guys might want to know the actual weights etc. These are clinchers, 20spoke front and rear:

Front wheel: 595g Rear wheel: 704g Both front and rear: 1299g
Front Skewer: 21g Rear skewer: 23g Both front and rear skewers: 44g
Front tire/tube 25mm Conti 4000Sii: 338g Rear: 336g Total Tires/tubes: 674g
Total weight excluding cassette: 2017g
Cassette: 208g
Width (exfernal/internal): 24.5mm/16.6mm

Ok, so those are the weight stats. First thing I recommend is to toss the skewers. I know they're superlight and both of them weigh less than one Campy skewer, but sheesh... they can be a creaking pain and I never felt confident they're holding the wheel as good as they should be, at least nowhere near what a Campy or Dura-Ace skewer would. I have one guy with a bunch of Lightweights who finally decided to switch out all his Lightweight skewers to Campy. He came over complaining of constant creaking from the wheels. I said "Let's go for a ride", and without doing anything else, I just replaced the skewers with a set of Campy skewers. No creak, not a peep. That was it... he's converting all his Lightweight skewers to Campy. You decide for yourself if the lighter weight is worth it on such a critical component.

Ok, here's some pics...

Other than the width, not much to note in the way of changes, except for the inner edge of the rim where the spokes come out is more rounded than before, but it's only about 3mm thick at that point, so it's not like it's suddenly got a blunt big rounded edge, still pretty narrow. But no basic shape or profile changes that I could see, excpet the depth is now 48mm instead of 47mm...


The rim... really don't notice any changes in texture or brake track differences over the previous version... at least lookswise it appears to be the same...


The flanges also appear to be the same as before... paper chip thin and you really need to be careful when packing these for travel or whatever because they can be easily broken...





Ok... the only reason I had access to these wheels, was because the owner had just got them on his new bike and was leaving for a majorly hard ride in California the next day (Death Ride, 130miles and 15,000'+ of climbing). He is in very good shape and has been looking forward to this ride for a long time. I wanted to see the finished bike before he left (I didn't build it) as he was out riding that evening. We met up somewhere and I asked him how the braking was. He said it was screeching like a Banshee. I had a quick look and realized the brakes were just poorly adjusted so I told him to bring it over and I would make quick work of that at least. I also said I thought he was crazy taking these wheels, that he had just got, on a ride like that.
Which brings us to @bruno's question:

Anybody experienced the so called new braketrack of the LW's in the rain?
Is it similar to the Mavic and Campagnolo ac3 braketrack? Or not as good?

Well, there were a couple of thunder storms during the ride, but luckily they were short and not during any of the major descending. But he said that was when he was worried. If it had been raining during the descents he said he would not have been able to do them, or at best it would have been a sketchy tentative slow ride down. Simple as that. So, from looking at the brake tracks, I can say they aren't anything like the Campagnolo AC3 brake track and don't really even look any different than the brake tracks on previous LIghtweights. These were set up with Lightweight brake pads. And from my friend's comments, I'd have to say they are poor performers in the rain.

I can't personally speak to how these brake in the wet since I haven't used any Lightweights in the rain, so that anecdote is coming from someone who just used them. He also tried out the Enves when he was trying to decide and really liked them, but the new ENVE's with 25mm Conti clinchers just wouldn't really fit in the frame properly. And, as I said... he just likes the looks of the Lightweights, so his mind was pretty much made up... he wanted the Lightweights regardless of anything practical that might get in the way. As for handling gusts, which is my biggest beef with previous generations of Lightweights, I have yet to try them out, but I don't see anything different shape wise or surface area wise that would make me think they behave any differently, save for the slightly added width that better accommodates a 25mm tire, and this alone could very well add some stability over the old versions, but not because of better wind handling characteristics. They still have spokes that are almost 3 times the cross section of a thin steel spoke, a flat rim profile and large diameter flanges at the hub. Perhaps I'll take them out one day to just see how different they are and whether they "snatch" those gusts at every chance they get like the previous versions.

[TurboTommy]

Mine came in at 1164 for the pair. But they’re 16/20 tubs. A whole 1gram lighter than advertised (whoop whoop...)

Cal I’ve not had your friends experience with the creaking skewers. Honestly I was super weary of riding these wheels in anything but great conditions because I’d heard so many horror stories about the way they handle. But I’ve descended at 50+ mph on them. And I’ve cycled through gusty weather. And I haven’t found them much more snatchy than other deep wheels. My experience is relatively limited... I’d have to check strava but I don’t think I’ve done 500 miles on them yet. But I don’t feel unconfident on them as of now. That may change... like I say I have heard the horror stories, so I don’t want to give them a ringing endorsement and look like a fool later! But I have ridden them in the rain. All be it briefly but in heavy rain. And as I said before they were better than my zipps in that regard.

I have to be honest and say I bought these wheels knowing they fell short of different wheels in different areas. But I basically wanted to scratch the itch. I don’t think I’d try and argue their value for money or performance value. But I am very happy with them so far in terms of my user experience.

[Calnago]

There’s nothing wrong with “scratching the itch”. First hand experience in your usage is the best. My buddy who did the Deafh Ride was not a newbie to Lightweights. He has a Gen3 set of Lightweights as well. I remember when he first got them and we went for a ride. He had had them a while by then. He commented how they were somewhat unnerving on descents in the wind. But he has gotten used to them and he likes them. He also changed out the skewers (like the other guy) after a while due to creaking. If you can keep them tight enough there won’t be creaking of course, but In comparison to the ease and quality of clamping from a Campy or Dura-Ace skewer well, there’s no comparison. The cost of ultra lightweight.
So, he’s still relatively new to the wider rim Lightweights and thinks they’re better than the old version for stability but most of that is probably due to the added width as opposed to wind handling characteristics. I just noticed in the second picture I posted above a strange looking indent in the rim. I’m going to check that out next time they’re at my house. I think the braking with Lightweights and the Lightweight pads is just fine in the dry. But in the rain, not so much. I’ve got three guys whose bikes I work on that ride Lightweights. Between them they have 8 sets from Gen 1 with the brown spokes through to the very latest 24mm wide versions. They really vary from set to set as to how well they brake it seems. One set was bought used and I installed some new Lightweight pads and braking was like a skating rink. Since braking on another set of the same wheels with the same pads was very good I couldn’t figure out why the big difference. If you look at the surface of Lightweight Carbon Wheels after some use, it almost seems a bit porous and I could only think that the difference in braking was due to contaminants in the brake track. Or maybe even overheating at some point. So I set about trying to clean them as best I could. I did manage to get the braking to a much more acceptable level just through a rigorous cleaning. I wonder if perhaps the previous owner had used a different set of pads which left some undesirable residue on the wheels. I couldn’t visibly see anything so just kept scrubbing, using some acetone in an attempt to really clean them up.

[RyanH]

With metal dropouts most non Campy/Shimano skewers will creak at one point or another. This is particularly the case in the summer where they may be setup nice and tight in the morning in your cool place and then once you embark, they expand as it heats up and the creaking begins.

Regarding LW in the wet, ha! They're bad, remind me of Enve 25. Boras are perfectly acceptable to ride in the rain, LW are not, end of story.

@calnago, don't bother riding the Meilenstein Clinchers, they have to be the most mediocre wheels I've ridden assuming they ride like the disc version I borrowed. They have none of the LW character. I am not the only one either, I was talking to a multi time national champion that we frequently ride with and he saw my Gipfelsturm and was curious how I liked them. When I shared my experience with the Meilenstein clinchers, he went into how much he hated them and how poor the ride was.

[Calnago]

@calnago, don't bother riding the Meilenstein Clinchers, they have to be the most mediocre wheels I've ridden assuming they ride like the disc version I borrowed. They have none of the LW character

Is it the “Lightweight character” or the “tubular character” you’re referring to? Most of the sets of Lightweights I get to ride are in fact tubulars. But I can distinguish between the character of tubular/,clincher versus the character of Lightweight wheels in general. The reason the guy I know who likes them the most says it’s because they are so stiff. His in particular have a terrible grabbyy brake track. I ask him about that and he says he doesn’t care. Modulation? What’s that. They brake just fine. Modulation is for girls. Ok. Lol. He’s never ridden them in the mountains. But he likes them nonetheless. They are stiff, no question about that.

[Calnago]

Oh Ryan, by the way, in another thread talking about the grabbiness you mentioned to try the red Campy pads. Well, I did that and no matter what, couldn’t get rid of it. The red pads felt very good but I put the Lightweight pads back on after I wasn’t able to alleviate it with the red Campy pads either. The thing is, these wheels in particular were quite true, enough that I don’t think I could attribute the grabbiness to brake pulse from an untrue rim. The only thing I can think of is embedded residue in the brake track, possibly from using some other brake pad, or perhaps some overheating in a past life. Just don’t know, but it takes modulaltion to zero for sure.

[TurboTommy]

Because I’ve had the wheels for such a short time relatively I can obv only comment on the braking in that scale. I’ll have to try a keep a look out for small changes over time. I am being pretty conscientious about wiping them down after rides so hopefully that improves their long term performance prospects too. Time will tell...

I totally agree about the difference between 22 and 25mm tubs. Just in general 22’s seem more lively and less planted. I believe it was sungod in another thread that also noted the difference in lightweights characteristics specifically, when using 25mm on the older narrower rim. Not that this relates directly to cal’s Friends experience. But it is interesting to me what a difference such a small change in profile makes to overall feel.

I have a set of Planet X 50mm tubs, very similar I believe to the profile of standard meilenstein, although obviously not as stiff. In calm weather they just feel super sharp. Like I can turn on a coin and put them wherever I want to. But when the wind picks up they’re like sails! Like you just feel like you’re pushing against them constantly. I never had the standard meilenstein but when I hear people talking about them this is what comes to mind, or perhaps to a lesser degree. So maybe with the 24e you lose some of the top end performance under good to perfect conditions. But gain a bit more stability generally. And also you gain a bit of weight too. Which will make some people question the value of the 24e even more as lots of other wheels are now very close in weight. But like I say I’m going to try and avoid the debate about value for money!

Cal that does look like an indentation in the 2nd picture. Surely it’s just a trick of the light though. I hope so for your friends sake.

[Calnago]

Cal that does look like an indentation in the 2nd picture. Surely it’s just a trick of the light though. I hope so for your friends sake.

Yeah, I don’t know what that is, but I don’t remember seeing it when I had them here and my buddy hasn’t mentioned it either. But I doubt he would even if he has noticed it.